Another Newbie, Another question. Something a bit different - water changes?

[Michael Russell]

It is a special order. I am told 4 weeks. That said we are only a couple hours from their Canadian Warehouse... They could put me in a Midnight canyon colour today, but family took the reins and said they want the silver/white...

Whats your traditional lead time this this time of year?

[Hottubguy]

I’m going on about 7 weeks for the last order I placed. Sucks because I like selling the product but for me it’s easier to sell the other brand I carry because I know I can get them in 3 1/2- 4 weeks. Guess it just means they have a high demand on their product. Sounds like your dealer is grabbing tubs out of the stock up in Canada

[MarKee]

Congrats Michael Russell, that’s a great tub. My favorite spot in the Epic is sitting in the flootwell and getting the geyser jets on the lower and mid/upper back. 

I would prepare for the possibility of a little bit longer lead time like hottubguy said, although they might arrive faster to Canadian dealers.  The Marquis factory is very busy.

Enjoy the tub!

[Michael Russell]

Hoping it is not much longer. Time will tell though. The midnight canyon was being offered by marquis was actually assigned to another customer who does not need it until mid November. They were willing to give me that one and bring in another tub to replace it for them.

I will question the dealer next time we talk and ask if he is being optimistic or realistic.

[swilly1000]

I ordered my tub on July 20th, the dealer quoted eight weeks and it took just over 10 weeks.  They are made to order I'm guessing.  That didn't matter though as I got the one I wanted.

That extra two weeks is diddly in comparison to the many years I will enjoy it.

[south]

Thanks for this thread, ya'll, I learned a few crucial things.

[Michael Russell]

Well some food for thought..

I originally started this thread looking at tubs that will help me minimize water changes. My neighbour who already has a hot tub has been trucking in water at $120 a load to fill his tub 3 - 4 times a year. As I read an researched I realized there are options beyond salt that will help me reduce water changes and I decided to avoid salt.

Yesterday I took a couple of water samples up to my hot tub store to get the water tested. It gave me an excuse to go up and check the status of my order...

Anyways. The two samples I brought up were straight from my well and through my full filtration system (sediment filter, softner, UV, Fine particulate filter and carbon filter).

I have not figured out how to attach pictures yet so here is the hand typed results :-)

Unfiltered
Bromine - 0.47ppm  (Surprised this is showing a reading from the well???)
pH - 7.9
Hardness - 106ppm
Alkalinity - 181ppm
Copper - 0ppm
Iron - 0.2ppm
Phosphate - 1 ppb


Filtered
Bromine - 0.39ppm  (Again surpised by this, thought Carbon would take this out of water)
pH - 7.8
Hardness - 0ppm
Alkalinity - 201ppm
Copper - 0ppm
Iron - 0.2ppm
Phosphate - 0 ppb


Any chemistry experts want to review? Main concern I have using the well is the bacteria in the water. We do have chloriform bacteria as well as some iron bacteria (minor staining in toilet). Any issue with introducing this into the tub? I believe the Chlorine or bromine will kill it all and it will be filtered out. Any side effects I should consider or do you think that the well water unfiltered will do? Should I use one of the X10 water filters on the hose? Looks like the RV hose filters are quite a bit cheaper and seem to use the same filter tech and filter the same things.


Side note. Dealer has not hear of any delays and is expecting the tub to hit Canada in about 3 weeks.
Cheers guys!

[swilly1000]

The x10 filters are only around $60 and they will last for 10 ish water changes as I recall.   Not a tipping point $ wise.

[Michael Russell]

I ordered the Camco ones.. Get 2 for $40. They are for drinking water in an RV so they should be fine....

[hobble23]

My first post after a lot of reading.  I was considering a master spa.  Probably for about 12,995 cdn +tax including probably a lifter or something for an 8.25 - i didn't negotiate.  I think I'm not willing to pay that now though based on the negativity towards the brand - too big of a risk - they would have to be less then other brands signficantly now for me personally despite everything else.  Seems ethically that company has some issues.  From reading I think the Marquis is the way to go. 

Michael, would you be able to let me know what kindof of price you paid on the Marquis for reference in comparison? I also looked at Beachcomber and they seem like a quality tub but a bit old school and featureless.

[Michael Russell]

Hey hobble..

Where about are you located? I was into 3 different Marquis dealers across southern Ontario. Two of them quoted very high prices. The other, my local dealer was much cheaper and was has quote sheets with all the prices available to share. Including all the options.

The epic we got for $12,000
Upgraded constellation lights $454
Cover lifter $200
Delivery $300....

The $12k is with a $1000 factory discount that may not be available now.

Cheers

Mike

[swilly1000]

I paid $12,995 + tax for my Master 8.25 back in July. Took delivery and started using it October 1st. Love it so far.  Bargained the cover lifter, WI-FI app and ABS pan into that price.

[swilly1000]

I think it's good for people to be sharing and asking what they and others have paid for their tubs. A big part of what is wrong with this market is the non-disclosure of pricing in the marketing of hot tubs.

The argument the manufacturers will give you is that it's difficult to compare apples to apples because of all the choices among brands, models and options.  And when consumers respond to that by saying those same choices exist within similar markets (e.g. automobiles) marketers will counter by saying that the relatively smaller hot tub market makes the hot tub market different.  I say that is b******t. Consumers should be given pricing information in marketing materials instead of having to ferret it out by calling and visiting dealers.

Compounding the problem is consumers being reluctant to share their price experiences because they don't want to look foolish for having paid too much.  It's the opposite of talking about getting a great deal.  People love to brag about getting a great deal but they are embarrassed to admit they got hosed.  Of course this just plays right into hands of the marketers because it keeps pricing in the shadows.

So please freely share your pricing experiences.  It will help make the market more efficient.....and benefit consumers.

Just my two cents.

[Sam]

This post is not meant to defend the industry's pricing policies, but it's a little more nuanced than it appears.

You said "relatively smaller" referring to the hot tub industry vs. the auto industry.  Last year the hot tub industry sold about $1billion dollars worth of goods.  Volkswagen alone sold $240 billion.  The hot tub industry is a very small industry.  The manufacturer support of dealers is significantly different between the 2.  And unlike cars, the company has to come to your house to make the repair.  What about financing?  Financing is very expensive for hot tub dealers.  Most customers don't realize that the 24 months no interest financing that one company offered costs them 10% to 14%.  It's not like the auto industry where they can get kickbacks for financing.  It costs us a lot of money.  There's no in house Hot Spring Financial division like I got with my volkswagen.  If one guy offers financing and the other doesn't, that effects the price and most people don't factor that in. 

If you commodotize hot tubs and make it all about who has the lowest price, the industry would suffer and service and support would become much worse, in my opionion.  It's pretty expensive to have a fully trained, experienced, and well paid tech support staff.  To answer the phone 7 days per week.  To stock expensive parts on your own dime until a warranty call gets processed months later.  Good service has a cost.  When pricing becomes a race to the bottom, those things suffer.

Also, when comparing prices it's hard to compare what exactly one company does on delivery than another.  What steps they use.  What cover lifter they use.  What type of chemical kit do they give you.  Starter kits can range from $15 to $100 wholesale cost. Do they subcontract out their deliveries and service to another company?  Are they so understaffed on delivery or service teams so that it takes a long time to get scheduled?   

When you just compare the raw numbers it's hard to factor all of these things in.  Dealer A may be $500 cheaper, but if he uses a crappy chinese cover lift and step, a cheap basic starter kit that lasts 2 days, uncle cletus delivers the spa late, when it breaks down on a freezing friday they tell you to call the service company that handles that stuff but they aren't open until monday, etc.  was it worth the savings?  When price shopping, these things are often overlooked.  People just want the best "deal".  Sometimes to offer the best deal, these are the corners that get cut.

Again, I agree that our industry could do better than it does.  I'm at least glad that they don't do what the mattress industry does.  Mattress companies change the label and model name for every different store so you cannot compare at all between them.


Sorry for the rant.  I do indeed agree that our industry has issues that need to be addressed, specifically with customer's having difficulty getting prices and comparing.

[silversun]

i dont mean for this post to be incendiary, but as a consumer I would like to point out some things that were plain to me.

Last year the hot tub industry sold about $1billion dollars worth of goods

you seem to imply that because the industry is smaller than the auto industry, pricing should not be transparent. But there are lots of industries that are even smaller, and still publish prices.  lots of industries don't have their own financing division, either. none of this prevents prices from being published for all to see for almost every other b2c retail industry.

If you commodotize hot tubs and make it all about who has the lowest price, the industry would suffer and service and support would become much worse, in my opionion

has this not already happened with discount brands that are only sold in home depot and costco? If someone really didn't value the service/dealer relationship they would not even be in your store, instead they'd be paying half as much on an inferior brand. they either find out later that this was a bad choice, or they do their research in advance, figure out it's a bad investment, and go to a dealer. It just seems to me like it's not as simple as this. people value service after the sale.

Also, when comparing prices it's hard to compare what exactly one company does on delivery than another.  What steps they use.  What cover lifter they use.

- this doesn't prevent you from showing a stock price. 
- this is your chance to sell / make additional margin. customers can/should be able to opt out of these if they smell BS in your pitch. a hot tub doesnt need steps. it doesn't need a cover lifter. it's your job to convince us we do.

When you just compare the raw numbers it's hard to factor all of these things in.  Dealer A may be $500 cheaper, but if he uses a crappy chinese cover lift and step, a cheap basic starter kit that lasts 2 days, uncle cletus delivers the spa late, when it breaks down on a freezing friday they tell you to call the service company that handles that stuff but they aren't open until monday, etc.  was it worth the savings?  When price shopping, these things are often overlooked.  People just want the best "deal".  Sometimes to offer the best deal, these are the corners that get cut.

- this doesn't prevent you from showing a sticker price and negotiating on it, like any car dealer.
- It's is also your chance to show value, and sell. some people will buy the pitch and see value in it. some wont.
- You're making the assumption that everyone just wants the lowest price regardless, but i think thats short sighted. I knowingly paid a premium over other dealers and brands because i the dealer had a great reputation for service after the sale, and had the least amount of crazy BS in their pitch. That mattered to me.

I think the real reason why dealers don't show pricing is not because they can't, or that they would be chased out of business, but because it's in their best financial interest to be opaque. The dealer is at a significant advantage if they can select the price from which to start negotiations.