Another Newbie, Another question. Something a bit different - water changes?

[Michael Russell]

Hey Folks...

Yes another I am new at this question...

Been looking at tubs the last couple of days. Trying to educate myself. Something that came up during my reading and store visits was water change intervals. It seems most tubs come in around 3 - 4 months depending on usage. Being on a low quality well I will not be able to use my local water source to refill and will have to truck water in. I am told that is around $100 (CAD). With this in mind I have been leaning towards a salt water solution as I am told you are the upwards of a year between water changes helping me reduce expenses a bit.

So a few questions around this...

• Is there decent products or methods to operate traditional chlo/bro with reduce water changes that I should look at?
• I believe that Salt is a little more expensive to operate then Chlo/bro, saving $300 year though on water changes I think salt would be my better option. Thoughts?
• Am I missing any considerations in the puzzle of salt vs chlo/bro that I should be looking at?

The only salt water tub I have had a chance to look at is Lazboy. Specifically the Revive. We sat in the tub dry and its comfortable enough. I am no wowed by the overall product. The insulation specifically just seems like it should be better. The dealer has offered up with out any real work $12k cash(cad) (all in) including delivery and cover lifter. This is on a in stock model. I am sure I can do better on price.

I plan on stopping by Arctic Spa hopefully next week to look at the Klondiker. Trying not to buy into the marketing but I like their insulation scheme. Just seems to make sense to my feeble mind. I don't have any pricing as of yet. Anyone have any Canadian $$'s ideas for Arctic Klondiker?

We do have a Beachcomber store in our small town but they have no salt option. I like there product and the fact its a 10 minute drive though...

For reference sake, we are out near Cobourg ON. Lazboy dealer is in Peterborough, Beachcombers in Cobourg. Heading to arctic in Whitby. I may also drop by Master out in Kitchener next week as I am out that way for work.

Many thanks in advance folks. Feel free to fire me suggestions both as far as salt/chlorine and brands and models.


Cheers,

Mike

[hottubdan]

Do you have HotSpring near you.  Salt available.

[Michael Russell]

About 40 minutes away.. Opposite direction of where I normally go but not out of the question for a drive one night this week maybe.

Why Hotspring over Arctic?

Am I on the right track that salt is the better option for me?

---- as I look at it.. Not entirely sure the Belleville store actually has any Hotspring branded tubs. I will call to confirm but there some odd stuff with there website even though Hotspring links to them as my local dealer.

Do you have HotSpring near you.  Salt available.

[Marco P]

Whilst the arctic insulation system does work, your pumps and other equipment may not last as long as a full foam spa, as the heat is kept in as opposed to let out like on a full foam spa. think of it as if your car overheats, it breaks down. if your spa overheats, it breaks down.

[Michael Russell]

What brand(s) would you recommend then?

I am leaning towards salt water but trying to see if that is the right choice. As I read more the two that have popped up are Arctic and HotSprings mentioned previously...

I did sit in a Arctic today (dry). It was far more comfortable then the Lazboy in general although the hip width on some there seats with armrests was to narrow depending on model. Price wise more then I hoped to spend. I can do a wet test, just need to get my family out to Whitby (45 minute drive).

Its about 14k+tax Canadian for the Klondiker for Epic with 3 pumps (epic normally has 5). Including upgraded siding, fancy cover and lifter, some lighting, Spa Boy and delivery. Thats almost $16k with tax... It will need to come down to get me in the Arctic..

Again my I would love to hear more about salt water, and timing on water changes that people have experienced...

Thanks!

Whilst the arctic insulation system does work, your pumps and other equipment may not last as long as a full foam spa, as the heat is kept in as opposed to let out like on a full foam spa. think of it as if your car overheats, it breaks down. if your spa overheats, it breaks down.

[Tman122]

Whilst the arctic insulation system does work, your pumps and other equipment may not last as long as a full foam spa, as the heat is kept in as opposed to let out like on a full foam spa. think of it as if your car overheats, it breaks down. if your spa overheats, it breaks down.

If your pump runs for filtration for 4 hours a day that leaves no heat source to create the warmth for r-value for 20 hours a day. Is the Arctic insulation system really that good?

[Michael Russell]

I am not tied to the Arctic brand.. It just comes up as a Salt Water option that I am reviewing. That said the Arctic still has a heater that will have to kick in. No the motors will not generate enough waste heat to eliminate that.

My Main question is still salt water over Chlo/Bro and water change requirements...

Whilst the arctic insulation system does work, your pumps and other equipment may not last as long as a full foam spa, as the heat is kept in as opposed to let out like on a full foam spa. think of it as if your car overheats, it breaks down. if your spa overheats, it breaks down.

If your pump runs for filtration for 4 hours a day that leaves no heat source to create the warmth for r-value for 20 hours a day. Is the Arctic insulation system really that good?

[kies1]

We purchased a hotsprings flash. This is in the lime light series. My wife has very sensitive skin. At the moment I am using bromine. So far her reaction has been quite good the times she has been it. The nice thing is I can add the ace salt water system at anytime. What I like about the flash is it has two jet pumps and a 24 hour circulation pump that injects ozone into the system. Also it has fibre core insulation in the tub which really intrigued me. We are south of Toronto so will see how the hydro bill is in the winter months. So far I have been quite happy with it.

[Michael Russell]

Thanks Kies1,

Couple questions if you don't mind..

Where did you buy it?
How much did it end up costing?
How much was the salt water option if you decide to get it?
South of Toronto as in Buffalo area or Southern Ontario?

Cheers and thanks!

Mike

[castletonia]

My opinion is that if you are on chlorine, water changes should be made every 3-4 months.  If bromine, you should get 4 months, maybe a bit longer, but I would personally stick to 4 month intervals. 

With ACE saltwater that Hot Spring offers, Hot Spring states you can go up to 1 year between water changes.  I tell my customers 8 months.  The reason saltwater can go longer between changes is that you do not get the build up of cyanuric acid as quickly since you are not regularly adding chlorine and it also takes longer to build up the total dissolved solids. 

I like ACE and sell quite a bit of it, but less frequent water changes are not one of the features I promote when selling it. 

[Michael Russell]

Many many thanks for taking the time to answer...

So reading like crazy about CYA. My first thought was why would we be putting CYA in out hottubs. It would appear that this is because there are no product available without CYA for hottubs? I wonder if this is true in Canada. Something to add to my research list.

Still need to read more about TDS. This was actually brought up a Jacuzzi Dealer today. That water changes pushing a year will likely result in the TDS getting to high. I understand the theory behind this but need to read a bit more about the science.

What in your mind are the main selling points of Ace over Traditional Chlo/Bro? I centred in on Water change interval to save what appeared to be $360/yr in water changes by going salt. With your time lines that is now only $180/yr. This would cover the cost of the cell (from Arctic anyways, not sure about ACE).

Trying out the Jacuzzi tub today I did like it. Left on my list is to look at Master and HotSpring.

Thanks again!

Mike

My opinion is that if you are on chlorine, water changes should be made every 3-4 months.  If bromine, you should get 4 months, maybe a bit longer, but I would personally stick to 4 month intervals. 

With ACE saltwater that Hot Spring offers, Hot Spring states you can go up to 1 year between water changes.  I tell my customers 8 months.  The reason saltwater can go longer between changes is that you do not get the build up of cyanuric acid as quickly since you are not regularly adding chlorine and it also takes longer to build up the total dissolved solids. 

I like ACE and sell quite a bit of it, but less frequent water changes are not one of the features I promote when selling it.

[Aquatub88]

I have a Hotspring Envoy NXT and I waited for the Hotspring ACE System incentive and am so happy we went with the salt system.  The water is constantly clear, silky smooth because it is soft water and you do not come out of the tub smelling like chlorine/ chemicals.  I was on the fence but after 3 months it was the best decision to go with the Ace option.  With the ACE System you will use less chemicals and in turn the total disolved solids will be consodersbly lower than someone using chemical treatment.  I would say that is why the need to change the tub water out is less frequent.  I do use dichlor as a super chlorinator treatment every week- but it is only 2 teaspoons. 

[kies1]

Thanks Kies1,

Couple questions if you don't mind..

Where did you buy it?
How much did it end up costing?
How much was the salt water option if you decide to get it?
South of Toronto as in Buffalo area or Southern Ontario?


I am south of Toronto and purchased at a pioneer family pools location. Would rather not discuss pricing but was very happy with what I paid. Salt water option I think was an additional 800 to 1000 but do not quote me on that. Looked at jacuzzi as well. Upgrading to the lime light series from hot spot you also get a better warranty. Nicer cabinet, exterior corner lights and it also has 41 jets.

Cheers and thanks!

Mike

[Michael Russell]

Hey Kies,

I think you tried to reply to the thread but it came up blank. If you got a minute I would love your input!

Thanks,

Mike

Thanks Kies1,

Couple questions if you don't mind..

Where did you buy it?
How much did it end up costing?
How much was the salt water option if you decide to get it?
South of Toronto as in Buffalo area or Southern Ontario?


I am south of Toronto and purchased at a pioneer family pools location. Would rather not discuss pricing but was very happy with what I paid. Salt water option I think was an additional 800 to 1000 but do not quote me on that. Looked at jacuzzi as well. Upgrading to the lime light series from hot spot you also get a better warranty. Nicer cabinet, exterior corner lights and it also has 41 jets.

Cheers and thanks!

Mike

[kies1]

Sorry about that,

I am south of Toronto, Southern Ontario and purchased at a pioneer family pools location. Would rather not discuss pricing but was very happy with what I paid. Salt water option I think was an additional 800 to 1000 but do not quote me on that. Looked at Jacuzzi and  arctic  as well. Upgrading to the lime light series from hot spot you also get a better warranty. Nicer cabinet, exterior corner lights and it also has 41 jets.