Caldera vs. Saratoga vs. Four Winds- help, please!

[Annecal]

Hello,
I have autoimmune arthritis, neuropathy and fibromyalgia, and am looking forward to having a hot tub. Finding useful reviews is proving tricky. We looked at the Four Winds Titanium II, Caldera Martinique, and the Saratoga Spas Canfield. I liked the passive therapy in the Saratoga.  We'd planned to look at the Artesian spas, but a dealer at the first place we visited said he's not carrying them anymore, because they had too many problems with Artesian since they came under new ownership.
I'd be so grateful for thoughts and advice, including other brands we should consider. I'm seeing a lot of customer service issues reported with the Four Winds, which is the brand the dealer who warned us off Artesian carries, but am seeing a lot of good things about Artesian, and am feeling conflicted there.


I'm also on immunosuppressants, so a clean tub is crucial, if that's a factor.
Thank you so much for your time and advice,
Annie

[castletonia]

I have no experience with Four Winds, but have not heard a lot positive about them.  Saratoga is a more regional brand to the East Coast.  I sold Saratoga from 2001-2005 and have nothing bad to say about them.  They make a quality product and stand behind it.  The Canfield was and I believe still is their best seller. 

I now sell Hot Spring and Caldera.  The Martinique is a great spa.  Comfortable lounger, great therapy in my opinion, well insulated and backed by a great company.  So long as you do not need the hot tub to fit more than 4 people, I really like the Martinique.  It's been so long since I have sat in a Canfield that I cannot offer an accurate comparison.

You're never going to find a lot of information about Saratoga, but as long as the hot tub fits your needs and the dealer is reputable, I think they could be a good option.  Wet test the Canfield and the Martinique and make your decision based on which hot tub fits you better and which dealer is more reputable.

[Sam]

I'm calling BS on them saying they dumped Artesian for Four Winds.  In my opinion Four Winds is nowhere near the caliber or quality of Artesian.  There's something else going on here.  Four winds is like bottom of the barrel in our industry and Artesian is among the top tier.  As a matter of fact, out of the 10 plus brands I have significant experience with, Artesian is probably the most reliable.  Hard to say without having hard data side by side, but we really don't have many service issues with them at all.  Of course we have the few odd spas that have multiple failures, but that is the exception not the norm.  That, and they tick all of the right boxes with energy efficiency, therapy, water  quality, etc.  I'm thinking this guy is hiding something. 

What city?  My rep actually told me he dumped a few dealers in the last year or 2 due to poor service and shady business tactics.

Of the brands you mention, I would certainly put Caldera as the lead based on what I consider important criteria for recommending a brand.  Nothing bad to say about Saratoga but they are definitely a smaller east cost brand.  Obviously a brand recommendation means squat if you don't like the feel of the spa and lack confidence in the dealer.

[Annecal]

Thank you both for your feedback.  The dealer didn't say they'd dumped Artesian for 4 Winds, they also carry whirlpool and another 2 or 3 brands I can't recall, but just that they weren't carrying Artesian anymore because they'd had so many problems. We'd gone specifically to look at Artesian, so this surprised us. Another dealer said the same about Jacuzzi.

I've asked the dealers for a wet test on the Caldera and Saratoga (I'm near Boston, so that might be why the latter is popular around here). I loved the positioning of the seat in the Saratoga dry, but I know it could all be different in a wet test and the Caldera Martinique is more affordable, though I'm tempted to also at least consider the Caldera Tahitian, for the ozone system. My immune system is terrible, so cleanliness is very important.

And, finally, do you think we should put Artesian back on the list and look again?
Thanks!

[Spatech_tuo]

Thank you both for your feedback.  The dealer didn't say they'd dumped Artesian for 4 Winds, they also carry whirlpool and another 2 or 3 brands I can't recall, but just that they weren't carrying Artesian anymore. Another dealer said the same about Jacuzzi.

I've asked the dealers for a wet test on the Caldera and Saratoga (I'm near Boston, so that might be why the latter is popular around here). I loved the positioning of the seat in the Saratoga dry, but I know it could all be different in a wet test and the Caldera Martinique is more affordable, though I'm tempted to also at least consider the Caldera Tahitian, for the ozone system. My immune system is terrible, so cleanliness is very important.

Take your time to get the right one and try to wet test the Caldera and Saratoga the same day or at least the same weekend. After 25 years of RA and probably a lot of the same issues you have I can attest that the hot tub will help and for my issues the hot water itself is the key, the jets are the bonus. Ozone can be added to any spa by the way, its just that on some its standard and others an add-on.

[Hottubguy]

Thank you both for your feedback.  The dealer didn't say they'd dumped Artesian for 4 Winds, they also carry whirlpool and another 2 or 3 brands I can't recall, but just that they weren't carrying Artesian anymore because they'd had so many problems. We'd gone specifically to look at Artesian, so this surprised us. Another dealer said the same about Jacuzzi.

I've asked the dealers for a wet test on the Caldera and Saratoga (I'm near Boston, so that might be why the latter is popular around here). I loved the positioning of the seat in the Saratoga dry, but I know it could all be different in a wet test and the Caldera Martinique is more affordable, though I'm tempted to also at least consider the Caldera Tahitian, for the ozone system. My immune system is terrible, so cleanliness is very important.

And, finally, do you think we should put Artesian back on the list and look again?
Thanks!

I’m pretty sure I know at least 2 of the dealers you are considering in the Boston area. You are probably dealing with a guy named Jay on the Caldera Spas. One of the great people in the spa business. The dealer who is carrying four winds only carries Artesian for less then a year. Pretty sure there is more to the story of why he doesn’t carry them anymore but I do know they opened a dealer on Route 1 in Peabody that sells Artesian. Again a good dealer. Not sure who the Saratoga dealer is where you are but they make a fine tub. I would stick with Caldera or Artesian in your case but wet test a few and let that make your mind up. I like Saratoga and think the guys at the factory are great. I just don’t think the therapeutic value is the same

[Annecal]

Hottubguy,
The Caldera is with a guy named Chris in Wakefield, which is just down the road from us. the Saratoga is at the place in Peabody and they do carry Artesian, we just didn't look at Artesian because of what the dealer in Billerica had said about them. Now maybe we should.

I was talking with my husband a lot last night, and for me, it's the hot water and a comfortable position, not actually the jets. Sometimes I'm in too much pain for any jets, if anything I have them on the lowest setting, and haven't been able to tolerate massage on my torso for years.  I'm conflicted, because with Caldera, for example, I think probably the Vacenza lines Torino or Palatino would be perfectly fine for our needs, it's just the two of us but plenty of room to have guests in. But then because of the immunosuppressant meds it seems like the higher end spas have a better cleaning system with less chlorine, which I'm sensitive to.  Is this accurate, do you think? Spa tech it's great to know we can add ozone! It's our first hot tub, and I'm getting it to replace an old indoor clawfoot that wasn't deep enough to cover my stomach, but I miss my hot soaks, so anything will be an improvement!
Thank you all for the advice, I really do appreciate this unbiased (you're not trying to sell me something), feedback.

[Hottubguy]

Hottubguy,
The Caldera is with a guy named Chris in Wakefield, which is just down the road from us. the Saratoga is at the place in Peabody and they do carry Artesian, we just didn't look at Artesian because of what the dealer in Billerica had said about them. Now maybe we should.

I was talking with my husband a lot last night, and for me, it's the hot water and a comfortable position, not actually the jets. Sometimes I'm in too much pain for any jets, if anything I have them on the lowest setting, and haven't been able to tolerate massage on my torso for years.  I'm conflicted, because with Caldera, for example, I think probably the Vacenza lines Torino or Palatino would be perfectly fine for our needs, it's just the two of us but plenty of room to have guests in. But then because of the immunosuppressant meds it seems like the higher end spas have a better cleaning system with less chlorine, which I'm sensitive to.  Is this accurate, do you think? Spa tech it's great to know we can add ozone! It's our first hot tub, and I'm getting it to replace an old indoor clawfoot that wasn't deep enough to cover my stomach, but I miss my hot soaks, so anything will be an improvement!
Thank you all for the advice, I really do appreciate this unbiased (you're not trying to sell me something), feedback.

Oh ok.  I have met him before but don't really know him.  Thought you may have been looking in Amesbury.  I wouldn't pay much attention to the Billerica guys reasoning.  Pretty sure he was out and Peabody replaced him.  Company in Peabody is a very good company.  I have met them on a number of occasions.  You lose a lot with the Tarino but if hot water is your main concern then you will be fine and you can save yourself some good money going that way.  Just make sure you have them program the filters to run more then what the factory settings come.  Still can do @ease with that system.  Good tub but I don't sell many of that particular model.  I would stick with either the Wakefield guy and the Peabody guy.  The reason you are hearing negative stuff in this area about Jacuzzi is because Of what Jacuzzi did to all the dealers in the Northeast.  They made a deal with the Devil and service will become a problem on those tubs in the near future

[Annecal]

Thank you so much. We have a wet test Friday, fingers crossed we love it!

[Annecal]

Back from wet testing the Martinique and enjoyed it very much. Now wondering if we should upgrade to the Tahitian. Thanks for all of your help!

[Hottubguy]

Back from wet testing the Martinique and enjoyed it very much. Now wondering if we should upgrade to the Tahitian. Thanks for all of your help!

If you enjoyed the Martinique I think you will enjoy the Tahitian more. The 2018 Tahitian I like a lot better then the 2017. I really like the neck jets in the lounge. I also like the design of the Utopia Series cabinets a lot. Good time to buy with the free extras going on through the 21st as well!

[Annecal]

Yes! Those are our thoughts, do you know if the lounge seat is the same in both? The Tahitian looks like it might have the legs raised more than in the Martinique, which I'd prefer,  it I can't quite tell.

[Hottubguy]

Yes it is more raised in the feet area. It also sits a bit deeper

[Annecal]

Thanks so much, I think we have a winner!