Help Finding a Large Hot Tub

[Chris_H]

Thanks everyone for answering my horsepower question.  Even though I knew the answer when I asked it.  I really just wanted some reputable regular “posters” to say that the break horsepower was misleading.  Thank you all for doing so.  Yes, I do consider Stuart reputable, but keep digging.  I’ll be over with my bobcat this weekend to help you out.

My reason for “stirring the pot” was because over at the poolsearch.com website there is a thread called  “Hotsprings Spa”  and in that thread includes a response “Check out Master Spas. Steel frame construction, 56 frame pumps, magnetic therapy. 6 HP pumps..”  I absolutely hate those posts.  I don’t want this to happen on this forum.

The original poster “iggman” specifically asked about Catalina, Sundance, D1, and Hot Springs.  Not Master.  

Spaguyohio, why would you even bring that brand up?  In my opinion it is just plain rude to do so especially when you are obviously misleading him with your original post saying the spa has 4 – 6.5 HP pumps.  Even on Master’s website, it says 3 - 6HP pumps.  You are doing Master a disservice when you promote your product incorrectly.  

In my opinion (always remember opinions are like a**holes everyone has one), Master is doing a disservice to the industry for not ever using continuous HP rating in their marketing so the product can be compared to other brands correctly.  

Windsurfdog, you are correct it is marketing.  However, to the “average joe” 26HP is obviously better than 5HP.  Most don’t know you are quoting them in break HP and not continuous HP.  Most consumers aren’t as smart as you.

[doodoo]

Thanks, doodoo, you've summed up my point succinctly.

Glad to see your post. I think? But in actual fact I was not pushing your point  or trying to prove it. If you read that in my post then I need to change it.

You're right though in that it does boil down to marketing, and that is what I find deceptive because it in fact distorts what reality is.  

That is why I agreed with the others because they proved their point based on math. I hate it when the marketing practices of some companies position their product as superior because of the HP strength which is quoted in break HP rather than continuous HP. You saw right through it whereas I required significant explanation.  

I'm not as smart as some and rather than sell me something based on merit, some companies resort to pratices that are ........well...... less than honest. by making me believe that their product is better and stronger than others.

[bethshar]

I heard the Sundance Maxxus is getting redesigned for 2005.  
Something about excersizing in hot water leading to health issues!!! Duh -

Anyway - who cares about HP.  Whatever the HP is in my Optima, I can't imagine the jets being any stronger.

[doodoo]

Whatever the HP is in my Optima, I can't imagine the jets being any stronger.

Pump 1: 2-speed/2.5 hp continuous, 4.2 hp brake

Pump 2: 1-speed/2.5 hp continuous, 4.2 hp brake

And you are absolutely correct the jets are strong enough. ANy stronger would blast me out.......

[tony]

IMO, good engineering makes more sense than lots of HP.

[spaguyohio]

Very simple as to why I mentioned it. I like the product. I won the product. Ive seen people post questions about Master, and everyone else jumps in with other brands.

A lot of people dont know that brand X or brand Y exists because all they know is from friends, etc. I know several folks who have bought brand A after literally knowing that it didnt exist in their neighborhood, but after trying they liked it.

[Spatech_tuo]

spaguyohio,
I too think its rude when people ask SPECIFICALLY what others thing about brands A, B and C and the response they get from others is "You really should check out Brand X". Also, if you're going to quote those DECEIVING HP ratings that Master spews out how about typing it as "6 BHP" instead of simply "6HP" which is flat out deceitful.

[stuart]

OK Windy!
Lets dig this hole deeper while I have a minuet. I assumed you worked for Master out of your knowledge of trademarked names as I said. I also assumed this because of your constant touting of the product. Let’s leave it at you claiming to be an informed customer that has nothing better to do with your time but hang out on spa forums and venomously push master spas and me not being able to comprehend what would drive a customer to that for 1.5 years.

If you are just a customer then that means you own 1 spa and from the looks of it have not owned it long. You’re pushing the brand as if you’re an expert on it having only purchased one? I’ve purchased 1000’s of spas! In a years time I am directly or indirectly involved in over 900 service calls through several stores. I have worked in this industry for well over a third of my life and I have delivered more Master Spas personally myself than you have probably seen, so who do you think would have more experience and expertise you or I?

You claim my statements where opinions and wanted fact? You want the truth? I don’t know if you can handle the truth! The truth is 2 out of every three Master spas we delivered had problems, the truth is I have boxes of jets in my back room at any given time that are jets from the masters and downeast I sold that we have to replace on a weekly basis. Here is a fun story for you - I had a customer that insisted on a 1050 LS long after we stopped selling them. I told him of the problems, explained that we were still a dealer and could get the product but we did not like the service nightmares. He still insisted on that spa! When we delivered it (after waiting almost 8 weeks to get it) the shell was cracked and the cabinet was falling apart. We left the spa for him to use because we knew the replacement would take forever, 2 hours after firing it up the control panel burned up from a loose fitting from the factory. We replaced the board and the radio did not work but knowing we would be replacing the spa he decided to wait. The new spa finally came in and when we delivered it we could not get the floating remotes to work, some of the jets would not stay in and we had to use cabinet panels off of both spas to get one good set (BTW, we removed them for the delivery as they would have broken). This saga is not over as he is still having problems with it.

I can share a different true story about problems we have had with master every week if you would like but would rather not take the time. If you want me to continue this I’m willing.

You post some decent posts on this forum and I have yet to attack your reputation but I gotta tell you, I have more ammo on this than you want to have me bring out and you have yet to give substantiated info other than sarcastic jabs.

[windsurfdog]

OK, Stuart, one last post in this thread......

I respect the amount of time you have spent in this field.  I respect the knowledge you have accumulated over the years.  I appreciate your comments about other posts I have made on this and Doc's boards.  If you notice, this is the ONLY thread where I have posted, in your words, "venomously".  You must understand why I would bristle after being falsely accused as some type of MS representative.  (Please go back and read this thread with this in mind.)  I didn't know you from Adam's housecat yet I was being accosted for trying to help clear the air about filter costs (and continuing to be accosted with phrases like "Let’s leave it at you claiming to be an informed customer that has nothing better to do with your time but hang out on spa forums..."  I guess it takes 2 to tango.)  

Yes, spaguy quoted from MS's literature/website.  
Yes the HP and jet numbers are marketing.  
No, not all MS spas are pieces of garbage.  
Yes, I am basing my opinions on the very first spa I've owned--after 51 years of life on this good planet.  
No, I don't consider myself an expert at all--informed yes.  (Please go back and read this thread with this in mind.)
Yes, I am a very happy spa owner--so far.  
No, I don't believe that every MS you've sold has resulted in an unhappy customer.  
Yes, I believe you, like all other spa retailers, have had problems in the past.  I just have a problem with your representation/recollections of the volume of these problems--your comments/attitude lead to 100%.  
Yes, I'd love to hear more of your horror stories as I'd like to hear more of Chas' or any other retailer that posts here.  Feel free to continue on, if you wish.
And if you feel your threats to attack my reputation are taken with anything less than a chuckle, by all means, please bring your "ammo" to bear.  Otherwise, truce--I truly don't care which.
For all others reading this thread, you decide......

[iggman]

thanks for all the advice, we are starting to wet test this weekend with d1 and sundance.  We will let you know how it goes!!!

[Sol_Dahbrishinsky]

Iggie:

I did Sudance and will do D1 after my "tutf-toe" heals..

Let's compare

[stuart]

Surfdog,
Sorry that you took my comment as a threat to your reputation! I meant that I could go on and on with the ammo I have gathered from the product. I did not mean it to sound like I was questioning your reputation but rather you needed to stop questioning mine.  

Yes your absolutely right, we have happy master customers but I paid a toll personally to make that happen far above and beyond the support I got from the factory.  

BTW, As an industry professional I get a lot out of these boards. I learn things every day that help me help my customers. And yes, I have a burr under my saddle concerning Master. If you and several of you friends all got food poisoning from McDonalds you would do your best to warn others. I do feel the need to explain the issues and warn of pending problems. I can tell you this I still have many people at Master that I like and respect and I hope they take my posts to heart and use the info to better their company and product.  

When I'm done with the fair I will post the pictures I mentioned if only for referance and will probably do it with a web page, in the mean time truce accepted…

[knowsabit]

thanks for all the advice, we are starting to wet test this weekend with d1 and sundance.  We will let you know how it goes!!!

spend a good long time in the D1 Massage Sequencer seats, you don't get the full effect unless you are in there for a good 15 min.  I spent an hour with my massage sequencer this morning  .

[stuart]

spend a good long time in the D1 Massage Sequencer seats, you don't get the full effect unless you are in there for a good 15 min.  I spent an hour with my massage sequencer this morning  .

You know, this is a very good point! This is what I have said many times about wet testing, we scrutinize the tub to hard sometimes without thinking of how it was designed to best perform. I didn't get to excited about the sequential massage seat either the first time I tried it but I too didn't appreciate the "full effect" of that massage until I tried it at a friends house and sat in it for about 30 minuets, WOW what a massage!

[huh?]

WOW.

Blow my mind.  I thought this forum hosted a little more class, and proffesionalism.  I am absolutely amazed.