Salt in a chlorine hot tub

[bud16415]

The debate continues.... Keep it up guys, let's get to the bottom of this once and for all. What's really going on here.

God forbid people discuss hot tub water chemistry on a hot tub discussion forum. 



Back to the discussion; We used to sell the Genesis aftermarket salt system and the people who had that installed had a significantly higher rate of heater failures than the people who used traditional programs.  I don't claim causation necessarily, but there is indeed a correlation.  I've seen it first hand.  I've also had people with multiple failed heaters switch back from salt to another program and their problems disappeared. 

In the end, I don't really care one way or another.  I'm interested in the debate and willing to change my opinion.  BullfrogspasMN certainly makes a compelling argument and seems to be a knowledgeable guy, hence my participation in this thread.

This makes me feel salt has a rather quick influence on heater life. I don’t know how long a normal heater life is. But to see repeated failures such that you even suspect causation I would think the failure would be in recent memory something like someone coming back in every 6 months complaining of another failed heater and then eliminating the salt the heater lasted 10 years or something like that. If non salt heater lasted 10 years and a salt heater lasted 5 I doubt anyone would make a correlation knowing the replacement would then take another 5 to fail.

If you could put an approximate time line on these failures you have seen it would be most helpful for me, also are heaters the only part of the tub that seem to fail do to salt. My dealer alluded to almost everything being eaten by the salt including the shell.

My problem is I have such a small sample size to evaluate I have one friend with a saltron mini system and he has been happy for many years with it and claims not even a hiccup in all that time. He could be an outlier in all the data though.           

[Astropin]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

[The Wizard of Spas]

As a long-time retailer and now an employee of a manufacturer, I'll chime in with an aspect that hasn't really been discussed:  Customer Cost vs Automation.

Salt (Chlorine or Bromine Systems) as an add-on is kind of like purchasing your tub:  You can go high-end, low-end, mid-range, etc.  There are a few manufacturers of salt systems that are linked with spa brands and then there are after market additions.  But all of that is relative to how much you like the automated aspect of it vs. its initial cost (which can be significant) vs. being more involved in your water chemistry.

There is no right or wrong answer here, in my opinion, as there are so many variables: 

CUSTOMER:  How much are you willing to pay for your perceived benefits?  (Automation, the "feel" of the water, etc).  What is the long-term costs?  (Life of generator, cost of replacement generator, cost of salt to add when you drain, etc)  And is that worth $X, or would you rather pocket the money and be more DIY?  If the expense isn't too much for you and you like the benefits, there ya go!  If it's to pricey, then the traditional route has worked for decades and easy to master.

DEALER:  How much is it worth in commission vs losing the deal or hitting a price point?  What will the customer have to do long-term?  Is it worth the parts/labor?  Etc. 

I don't have a dog in this race.  Most dealers understand that water chemistry is water chemistry is water chemistry.  There are so many different ways to treat the water.  Some dealers may want you to go the more expensive route as it is better for their bottom-line long term.  Others may take a stand as its what they've learned from their manufacturer.  Others may just be knowledgeable in all the ways of sanitation and prefer a certain way.  The only thing I stress is:  Know the basics of water chemistry and be sure to keep you water balanced.  After that, its all about whatever is best for the customer, as long as they have all the proper info in order to make an educated decision.

Just my two cents.  Good info on this thread guys!  Well done.

[bud16415]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

There are a few similar units. I mentioned the saltron mini and it does not have the monitoring capability of the one you showed. If that function worked well it would be very nice to have IMO.

Our usage is pretty stable and from adding dichlor for a few years I know if I had a machine that would dump a measured amount of that in every day I could be fine with that as well. So it would be nice to have a closed loop system I could live without it.

All this type units have in common is they are external to the tubs systems. The replacement of parts doesn’t require ripping into the tub. The downside if you call it one is you have a thing hanging into the tub to be removed before you get in. For me that’s not any bigger a deal than fishing out a floating feeder.   

[Cora5]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

This is the chlorine generator I've got my eyes on and will likely get once I purchase my spa. It appears to be an intelligent model that has the capability to monitor the amount of chlorine in the spa and make the necessary adjustments if needed. This is not a set it and forget it by any means. One will still have to be knowledgable of spa water chemistry and check the water balance on a regular basis and make the necessary adjustments.

This method is great for folks that have skin sensitivities to chemicals.

[Astropin]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

This is the chlorine generator I've got my eyes on and will likely get once I purchase my spa. It appears to be an intelligent model that has the capability to monitor the amount of chlorine in the spa and make the necessary adjustments if needed. This is not a set it and forget it by any means. One will still have to be knowledgable of spa water chemistry and check the water balance on a regular basis and make the necessary adjustments.

This method is great for folks that have skin sensitivities to chemicals.

Well I just bought it so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Tub just got delivered today (nice Valentines gift aye?). Can't get it hooked up until tomorrow though. Apparently some people liked what they saw in that system. Sounds like the real key with a salt system (any system really) is keeping the PH in line. If the PH gets out of whack that's when you run into issues. Maybe someday someone will develop a system that monitors and adjusts all of the parameters in your tub automatically...until then you need to pay a least some attention to it on a weekly basis. I really like the idea of "softer" water. 

[Cora5]

Hi Astropin,

Congratulations on your new spa. Please be sure to keep us updated on how you like the chlorine generator and post photos of your setup.

Let us know if the manufacturer of the chlorine generator has sufficient instructions with the device on maintaining water balance. It will be interesting to know if they are thorough in their presentation of their product by adding information on proper water chemistry in the package.

[Astropin]

Let us know if the manufacturer of the chlorine generator has sufficient instructions with the device on maintaining water balance. It will be interesting to know if they are thorough in their presentation of their product by adding information on proper water chemistry in the package.

Well here are the instructions if you are interested: http://www.controlomatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SmarterSpa_Owners_Manual.pdf

[Hottubguy]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

This is the chlorine generator I've got my eyes on and will likely get once I purchase my spa. It appears to be an intelligent model that has the capability to monitor the amount of chlorine in the spa and make the necessary adjustments if needed. This is not a set it and forget it by any means. One will still have to be knowledgable of spa water chemistry and check the water balance on a regular basis and make the necessary adjustments.

This method is great for folks that have skin sensitivities to chemicals.

Well I just bought it so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Tub just got delivered today (nice Valentines gift aye?). Can't get it hooked up until tomorrow though. Apparently some people liked what they saw in that system. Sounds like the real key with a salt system (any system really) is keeping the PH in line. If the PH gets out of whack that's when you run into issues. Maybe someday someone will develop a system that monitors and adjusts all of the parameters in your tub automatically...until then you need to pay a least some attention to it on a weekly basis. I really like the idea of "softer" water.

PH is very important but no more important then the hardness level in tub. Needs to be very low

[Astropin]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

This is the chlorine generator I've got my eyes on and will likely get once I purchase my spa. It appears to be an intelligent model that has the capability to monitor the amount of chlorine in the spa and make the necessary adjustments if needed. This is not a set it and forget it by any means. One will still have to be knowledgable of spa water chemistry and check the water balance on a regular basis and make the necessary adjustments.

This method is great for folks that have skin sensitivities to chemicals.

Well I just bought it so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Tub just got delivered today (nice Valentines gift aye?). Can't get it hooked up until tomorrow though. Apparently some people liked what they saw in that system. Sounds like the real key with a salt system (any system really) is keeping the PH in line. If the PH gets out of whack that's when you run into issues. Maybe someday someone will develop a system that monitors and adjusts all of the parameters in your tub automatically...until then you need to pay a least some attention to it on a weekly basis. I really like the idea of "softer" water.

PH is very important but no more important then the hardness level in tub. Needs to be very low

Well they do give this warning:

"WARNING: Consistently low Calcium Hardness levels below 150 PPM may lead to spa equipment
damage and failure. Make sure Calcium Hardness levels are within the recommended range above."

Those levels are 200-400ppm

[Hottubguy]

What about something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ControlOMatic-Smarter-Saltwater-Chlorine-Generation/dp/B0184O0F3K/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_2_dp?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_r=NZ6ENYVPNE3NXYD7SPHA&pd_rd_w=XkkOx&pd_rd_wg=7sJzn

"Using its chlorine detection system, the MegaChlor will generate only what it needs to when it needs to. The self-cleaning system reduces the time you spend worrying about maintenance."

This is the chlorine generator I've got my eyes on and will likely get once I purchase my spa. It appears to be an intelligent model that has the capability to monitor the amount of chlorine in the spa and make the necessary adjustments if needed. This is not a set it and forget it by any means. One will still have to be knowledgable of spa water chemistry and check the water balance on a regular basis and make the necessary adjustments.

This method is great for folks that have skin sensitivities to chemicals.

Well I just bought it so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Tub just got delivered today (nice Valentines gift aye?). Can't get it hooked up until tomorrow though. Apparently some people liked what they saw in that system. Sounds like the real key with a salt system (any system really) is keeping the PH in line. If the PH gets out of whack that's when you run into issues. Maybe someday someone will develop a system that monitors and adjusts all of the parameters in your tub automatically...until then you need to pay a least some attention to it on a weekly basis. I really like the idea of "softer" water.

PH is very important but no more important then the hardness level in tub. Needs to be very low

Well they do give this warning:

"WARNING: Consistently low Calcium Hardness levels below 150 PPM may lead to spa equipment
damage and failure. Make sure Calcium Hardness levels are within the recommended range above."

Those levels are 200-400ppm

What brand generator. I’ve always thought it was supposed saws be low on Spa systems. TwinCities as that just the ace system?

[Astropin]

What brand generator. I’ve always thought it was supposed saws be low on Spa systems. TwinCities as that just the ace system?

ControlOMatic SmarterSpa - https://www.controlomatic.com/products/smarterspa/

[bud16415]

Well I just added salt to my non chlorine generator tub, wish me well.

I added the recommended amount for a generator tub and will continue to use dichlor and bleach as sanitizer for now. I just changed the water 2 days ago and have everything balanced.

I hid the bag with the rest of the salt and I’m not saying anything to see if she notices the difference. We have been in it twice so far with the new water.

I put the salt in a plastic pail and set it in the tub by my friend with the salt tubs recommendation. He said it takes about an hour to dissolve that way. Once it is in the water I will take a soak and report back.   

[Sam]

Nice!  I'm curious to see the results.  Please report back.

[bud16415]

I gave it an hour to dissolve and I jumped in. It was very nice the same smoothness I remembered in my friends salt tub. I have always got out of this tub with both bromine and chlorine with and without minerals or any other water improving things and felt just a little dry and itchy and I didn’t feel that this time. No smell and no real taste but I didn’t sample a mouthful. 

When the weather breaks and I work under the deck I will be running a 120v GFCI for the saltron unit. If I’m going to have salt in the tub I might as well use it.   

Will post more reactions as I get them.