Salt in a chlorine hot tub

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

 Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

There is more manufacturers coming on-board as soon as next year, they simply can't ignore the fact that people who are offering it are kicking the crap out of competition assuming its sold/serviced/and the customer is properly informed.  I can't believe the people out their that "fight" that fact, it's crazy....in general 3-4% of the population in the United States owns a Hot Tub and it's not like that number has grown in the last 20 years, so how do you open up to a broader spectrum of customers? ummm how about innovating something once in awhile and that is exactly what salt does, it brings new buyers onto the market who never even considered a spa before, and I have 3 solid years of numbers that back up that statement, currently 65% of our hot tubs that go out for delivery get a salt system....I don't need Warren Buffets business acumen to realize that is a very positive sign now and moving forward.

[Cora5]

I knew this method had its draw backs. After having a year to decide on which sanitation method to go with. I have decided that I am definitely going with a chlorine generator. This method seems to offer a more simplistic means of keeping things in check.

[Cora5]

Bud14615, How long have your friend had his salt generator setup on his spa? Has he had any major issues with parts failing prematurely?

 Hotspring has been successful with their setup with the exception of the ACE cell going out on average every two years if I recall correctly. It would be nice if other hot tub manufactures would offer salt water spas to customers. I can image that a lot of people prefer these over chlorine and bromine.

There is more manufacturers coming on-board as soon as next year, they simply can't ignore the fact that people who are offering it are kicking the crap out of competition assuming its sold/serviced/and the customer is properly informed.  I can't believe the people out their that "fight" that fact, it's crazy....in general 3-4% of the population in the United States owns a Hot Tub and it's not like that number has grown in the last 20 years, so how do you open up to a broader spectrum of customers? ummm how about innovating something once in awhile and that is exactly what salt does, it brings new buyers onto the market who never even considered a spa before, and I have 3 solid years of numbers that back up that statement, currently 65% of our hot tubs that go out for delivery get a salt system....I don't need Warren Buffets business acumen to realize that is a very positive sign now and moving forward.

BullFrogSpasMN

You should sit on the board for some of these manufacturers. They've got their heads up their you know what. This is an excellent observation which I believe to be true. That is why I have to decided to go ahead and purchase a chlorine generator when I get my spa. If I'm willing to pay $13,000 for a spa, I want to enjoy it the way I see fit.

[bud16415]

Cora

Thanks for posting the info.

[Cora5]

Cora

Thanks for posting the info.

You're welcome Bud. Let us know when you switch over to a chlorine generator. I'm sure it will work out just fine for you.

[Sam]

Manufacturers don't offer salt because they've tested them and seen corrosion.  I've spoken with multiple factory reps who've said this.  I've seen firsthand quite a few people on salt systems have corroded heaters.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently.

[Gravelydude]

As a soon to be hot tub purchaser, this thread poses some diametric views on water sanitation and conditioning! 

[bud16415]

As a soon to be hot tub purchaser, this thread poses some diametric views on water sanitation and conditioning!

Yes it does. I’m not new to hot tubs as we have had ours for about 3 years now and this question is one that is hard to get a straight answer on.

The debate normally ends up centering on the heater at some point and heaters do start to corrode and weep at some point and then moisture gets into the electrical side of the sealed up unit and shorts tripping the GFIC and you are done. For me this type of failure is all the thermal cycles on a welded and supposedly stainless steel piece that salt should have no impact on. There are many different grades of stainless steel and some are better in different properties. Pumps are another area of concern and are supposedly designed to function without problems in water with bromine or chlorine sanitizers in them. Is the mild salt solution different?

I got the exact same narrative Sam stated above from my dealer. But would like to see something solid saying salt is bad for XYZ and here is the science behind it. Heaters fail everyday in salt tubs and non salt tubs. Is there a recorded increase in salt tubs. Is it like if I put salt in my tub I will expect to change my heater every year instead of every 10 years?

Can someone even tell me what material exactly a heater, pump etc are made from and then I would know just by looking up the properties of that material.

As far as I know the companies that offer salt systems don’t put different heaters in the tub if it is getting salt.

Then there are people that have switched over and I don’t hear an outcry of salt ruined my tub from them.     

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Manufacturers don't offer salt because they've tested them and seen corrosion.  I've spoken with multiple factory reps who've said this.  I've seen firsthand quite a few people on salt systems have corroded heaters.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently.

"multiple factory reps" did those guys happen to rep brands that don't offer salt? hmmm i wonder lol....only reason I would ever call a rep is if I ran out of brochures, they don't have any technical backgrounds, hell half of them can't even sell themselves.  Also I'd like to see these "corroded heaters" you speak of? low pH will corrode a heater 10x faster than 1800 ppm salt in the water so maybe they need some general water-care education?

[Cora5]

The debate continues.... Keep it up guys, let's get to the bottom of this once and for all. What's really going on here.

[meriflower]

Manufacturers don't offer salt because they've tested them and seen corrosion.  I've spoken with multiple factory reps who've said this.  I've seen firsthand quite a few people on salt systems have corroded heaters.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently.

This below is quoted from Bullfrog Spas blog.  I had one in my previous spa I would not get one again.

“For those considering this option, here are a few things to keep in mind. Due to the salt, you’ll have to do an additional test each month to check the salinity of your hot tub. Because of the corrosive nature of saltwater and other factors, Bullfrog Spas expert Cyndi Blessing (who used an aftermarket saltwater system with her hot tub) wouldn’t recommend using a salt generation system. In her experience, she found that “it was actually harder to balance the water compared to a more traditional chlorine or bromine system.”
 
Todd Cossey, a seasoned spa technician at Bullfrog Spas, adds, “Quite a few dealers have installed aftermarket saltwater systems, and although they’re suppose to be great, they can get out of control fast and can damage the spa.”

[bud16415]

I personally found bromine much harder than chlorine keeping my tub in balance, but I have read enough positive opinions of bromine to know I don’t know all I might think I know on the subject.

There is a multitude of opinions on everything in the world and reading blogs are no different.

I wish people would support their opinions with detailed facts. Like I said my water chemistry was bouncing like a yoyo with bromine. I’m sure some with salt have issues as well but I doubt it was the salt as if it was salt wouldn’t be used by anyone. What does “Corrosive Nature” mean. Water has a  “Corrosive Nature” also. They say it can “damage the tub” but in what way.

As far as I can tell the biggest problem with salt tubs is replacement of the anode unit and they seem overly high priced not user changeable easily and short life. The after market unit I’m looking at seems to have solved those problems.

Can someone post a photo of a ruined part caused by salt damage or a side by side comparison of part A with salt and part B without in hot tub usage. Something that would say this isn’t being called a bad thing because there is a huge amount of tubs designed around bromine and chlorine not to mentioned the sales of these products compared to cheep salt.

Seem like there should be facts not just opinions.     

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Manufacturers don't offer salt because they've tested them and seen corrosion.  I've spoken with multiple factory reps who've said this.  I've seen firsthand quite a few people on salt systems have corroded heaters.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently.

This below is quoted from Bullfrog Spas blog.  I had one in my previous spa I would not get one again.

“For those considering this option, here are a few things to keep in mind. Due to the salt, you’ll have to do an additional test each month to check the salinity of your hot tub. Because of the corrosive nature of saltwater and other factors, Bullfrog Spas expert Cyndi Blessing (who used an aftermarket saltwater system with her hot tub) wouldn’t recommend using a salt generation system. In her experience, she found that “it was actually harder to balance the water compared to a more traditional chlorine or bromine system.”
 
Todd Cossey, a seasoned spa technician at Bullfrog Spas, adds, “Quite a few dealers have installed aftermarket saltwater systems, and although they’re suppose to be great, they can get out of control fast and can damage the spa.”

keep an eye on their website, that info will be gone, can't say anymore than that right now...Not gonna argue about it anymore, I've been selling salt systems since 2004, I have more experience with saltwater (in real life applications in pools and hot tubs, not using Google or listening to a 'Rep') than probably anyone who has an account on this entire website, it works, it makes me more money, it makes the company more money, it sells more hot-tubs, and it offers more customers who have skin irritation the ability to buy and use a hot tub with overall lower maintenance.  This will be by final comments on it, I hope you all enjoy your Sunday! Keep Hot Tubbin!

[Sam]

The debate continues.... Keep it up guys, let's get to the bottom of this once and for all. What's really going on here.

God forbid people discuss hot tub water chemistry on a hot tub discussion forum. 



Back to the discussion; We used to sell the Genesis aftermarket salt system and the people who had that installed had a significantly higher rate of heater failures than the people who used traditional programs.  I don't claim causation necessarily, but there is indeed a correlation.  I've seen it first hand.  I've also had people with multiple failed heaters switch back from salt to another program and their problems disappeared. 

In the end, I don't really care one way or another.  I'm interested in the debate and willing to change my opinion.  BullfrogspasMN certainly makes a compelling argument and seems to be a knowledgeable guy, hence my participation in this thread.

[meriflower]

Manufacturers don't offer salt because they've tested them and seen corrosion.  I've spoken with multiple factory reps who've said this.  I've seen firsthand quite a few people on salt systems have corroded heaters.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently.

This below is quoted from Bullfrog Spas blog.  I had one in my previous spa I would not get one again.

“For those considering this option, here are a few things to keep in mind. Due to the salt, you’ll have to do an additional test each month to check the salinity of your hot tub. Because of the corrosive nature of saltwater and other factors, Bullfrog Spas expert Cyndi Blessing (who used an aftermarket saltwater system with her hot tub) wouldn’t recommend using a salt generation system. In her experience, she found that “it was actually harder to balance the water compared to a more traditional chlorine or bromine system.”
 
Todd Cossey, a seasoned spa technician at Bullfrog Spas, adds, “Quite a few dealers have installed aftermarket saltwater systems, and although they’re suppose to be great, they can get out of control fast and can damage the spa.”

keep an eye on their website, that info will be gone, can't say anymore than that right now...Not gonna argue about it anymore, I've been selling salt systems since 2004, I have more experience with saltwater (in real life applications in pools and hot tubs, not using Google or listening to a 'Rep') than probably anyone who has an account on this entire website, it works, it makes me more money, it makes the company more money, it sells more hot-tubs, and it offers more customers who have skin irritation the ability to buy and use a hot tub with overall lower maintenance.  This will be by final comments on it, I hope you all enjoy your Sunday! Keep Hot Tubbin!

I had a BF with the very same system you sell and it does make you a lot of money.  I know at the BF factory they have one of their spas running Blu Fusion.  No offense but you’re out to sell, market and spin, once the sale is done customers talk to your service person.  For the record I have owned spas since 2005 plus maintained both fresh and salt water aquariums even longer.