Waterway pump question

[devros]

We've had all kinds of trouble with Waterway pumps that we bought from hottubwarehouse.  They were very helpful in shipping me replacements and didn't even make me go through the hassle of returning the busted ones.  The latest batch we got from them seems to be crapping out again and since we live in Boston and had some freezing while we were away, I'm thinking about just going with two new pumps.  The one thing I noticed about the different pumps they sent me is the manufacturer of the motor seemed to change over time, and the issues we had were always with the motor and not the pump itself(We had one motor make a loud clanging noise and seize up and trip our breaker when we 1st fired it up.  Do different resellers combine the pumps with different brands of motors?  If so, are there ones that I should be looking out for?

The motor/pump in question is a Waterway 3721621-1D with a 4HP, 56 Frame, 2 speed, 12/4.4  motor.

TIA for any advice.  We are about to have a few days over freezing here so I'm really hopeful I can get the tub back online.

-ed

[Hottubguy]

We've had all kinds of trouble with Waterway pumps that we bought from hottubwarehouse.  They were very helpful in shipping me replacements and didn't even make me go through the hassle of returning the busted ones.  The latest batch we got from them seems to be crapping out again and since we live in Boston and had some freezing while we were away, I'm thinking about just going with two new pumps.  The one thing I noticed about the different pumps they sent me is the manufacturer of the motor seemed to change over time, and the issues we had were always with the motor and not the pump itself(We had one motor make a loud clanging noise and seize up and trip our breaker when we 1st fired it up.  Do different resellers combine the pumps with different brands of motors?  If so, are there ones that I should be looking out for?

The motor/pump in question is a Waterway 3721621-1D with a 4HP, 56 Frame, 2 speed, 12/4.4  motor.

TIA for any advice.  We are about to have a few days over freezing here so I'm really hopeful I can get the tub back online.

-ed

For the prices they are selling them for they are probably knock off pumps. A lot of there prices are cheaper then I can buy them for wholesale. At least it will be warm here for the next week or so. Are you sure you wired them correctly?

[devros]

positive they were wired correctly.  where would you suggest I purchase one with a quality motor?

[castletonia]

I have heard before that the Waterway pumps sold online are not the same as the ones I as a dealer buy through any of my distributors.  I personally have not had many issues with Waterway, but have spoken to a handful of service techs that don't have positive experiences with Waterway products. 

I personally like Aquaflo better.  I have had better reliability, seem to be a little quieter, are easier to change a pump seal (in my opinion) and a lot of times I think they can be used in place of Waterway.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

anyone else who has been in the industry 10+ years feel like pumps/motors have continually gotten crappier over the years regardless of brand? I feel like 10-12 years ago it would take an act of god for a jet pump to fail within 5 years, not it seems regardless of brand or manufacturer of the spa that they fail at a much higher rate?

[castletonia]

I don't have facts to back it up, but yes.  I notice more motor failure's right out of the box than I used to see.  Also seems pump seals are not as good.  I remember seeing old AquaFlo XP2's and old Executive 56 Waterways that probably ran for a year plus with bad seals and never harmed the motor.

[JacuzziJack]

The science and engineering on electric motors was worked out more than a hundred years ago. Now it's more about how to make them for less.  Because most people want the cheapest price, that drives manufacturers to areas where labor and any overhead is lower (like asia). Some of the cost cutting may be in the form of quality control as well, but you hope not. Pump companies buy motors from suppliers they believe are reliable and have a competitive price, and they buy in lots, or bulk. It's not uncommon for a pump company to try a shipment of different motors from a different supplier who may offer them a very good price on a certain shipment. A good pump supplier is going to likely go with the motor manufacturer who can show few defects for the price. There are a range of motors from cheap to heavy industrial ...just pick your price. On OEM's they may specify certain motors from mfgrs they believe are more reliable, like GE or Marathon. Of course they would be more expensive than the cheapest Indonesian motor, but if they eliminate failures, and help customers believe it's a more reliable tub, then the extra cost may be worth it.

When you say 'motor failure' it would be a lot more helpful if you could point to what the actual failure point was during the instances where each of the pumps stopped working. Saying they 'just crapped out' doesn't indicate what the problems were. Some of it could have been poor installation/wiring??  It's not fair to just say: 'we ordered a bunch of pumps and they were bad, therefore we think the waterway pumps are problematic.' w/o testing and drilling down to the specific failure points for each motor you considered bad. I've had motor shops tell me that many (not all) of the asian electric motors are made very well. Some are better than a lot of domestics. A lot of countries, especially poorer countries, have 'dirty' power and the motors need to be able to withstand a wide range of abuse.

The one failure you listed you said there was a loud bang and then it stopped. That sounds like trauma ....such as a broken impeller (unlikely) or a piece of some foreign matter like a bolt/nut/rock had fallen into the inlet or your hose or cooling fins during the motor change out process, and sucked in preventing the motor from turning. Something like that doesn't constitute outright motor failure. Where I used to work, we used so see motors, pumps, compressors and other components 'murdered' all the time by owners/operators/installers and 99 times out of 100 the first reaction is to blame the device as being 'cheap crap'. When our trained staff would look at the item, it was almost always deemed not the fault of the equipment, except in rare instances. The only way to know would be to take coil readings and even better, disassemble and inspect it. If foreign matter got into the pump, then remove it and it should continue to operate.

Another thing that causes motors to stop operating ...which one could argue is not outright motor 'failure' per-se, would be a failed start capacitor or start switch (inside the motor), pinched wire or an internal wire connector that fell off it's terminal. Even in this case, if it was a failed start capacitor that doesn't really constitute 'motor failure', it's failure to provide sufficient electrical current to the motor. Those are serviceable parts. Replace the capacitor with a new $5 part or correct the wiring and it should work. Problems one could legitimately blame on manufacturing would be something like a shorted field coil or armature problem not caused by installation mis-wiring, or perhaps a seized bearing.

If you have continued issues, definitely take the motor to a shop or have a competent person inspect it internally for why it isn't working. It might be intermittent controls (board) related too ..and not the motor. Good luck.