Electrical work questions

[jamiho]

Hello,

Hot tub newbies here.  My husband has stated he will do the electrical work needed for the 220V.  He does electrical work all the time for his job, but is not a licensed electrician.  I trust him, and the quote to have it done by a professional was about 2K!

However, I wanted some guidance.  First, we are looking to build a little bit of decking around the hot tub, so my thought was the conduit could run underneath that instead of underground.  Anyone else done this?  Second, the placement of the tub will be over 6 feet away from any metal objects or structures.   But we do intend to built a cover over the tub, which will have metal screws and some brackets.  Do we have to "bond" for this?

Thanks.

[bud16415]

I also am not an electrician but I did my own install and built a deck to hold my tub and saved several $k as well. Keep in mind a filled hot tub with the weight of the tub the water and the people will be about 6000 pounds. I ran my conduit under the deck as you suggest and that worked fine. You will need to run a 50 or 60 amp line from a new dedicated breaker in your main panel to a sub panel that is a breaker disconnect GFCI. That needs to be in sight of your tub and easily assessable and cant be any closer than 5 feet from the tub. The idea is you cant be sitting in the tub if the GFCI trips and reach out and reset it while you are in the water. The run inside my house I did with #6 romex. Code says when you exit the house and run wires thru a conduit they have to be single conductors rated for conduit service. What I did for that reason is attached the GFCI sub panel to the house so the romex could run continuous. Leaving the sub panel I then ran single conductor thru conduit under the deck and up into the tub.

A wooden deck wont require bonding even though it has metal fasteners.

Here is a good read on the difference between grounding and bonding and why you do it and when.

   http://www.ecmweb.com/bonding-amp-grounding/grounding-vs-bonding-part-11-12

Good luck with your new tub. What are you getting?

[hjscm]

2k seems pretty steep.  I just got a quote from a handy man certified electrician to run a 100 amp sub panel to hot tub area then the gfci plug for hot tub for $600 labor plus parts.  the parts are going to be around $350 for a 8 breaker panel and plug and conduit.  Also i live in bay area ca so pretty expensive labor around here.

[jamiho]

bud16415- did you use pvc conduit under the deck?  Thanks for the article. And I don't actually know what tub I am getting yet, but am looking at lightly used or reconditioned options.

hjscm- wow!  I got a quote of about $2K by two separate electricians.  I don't understand.  My circuit box is setup up for 220V and has extra room.  I'm in Portland, Oregon.

[bud16415]

2k seems high to me also but the big driver is the labor and what drives that is how hard the job will be. If you have a finished basement and the equipment room is on the far side of the house it is hard to say how much carpentry might be involved. At 100 bucks per hour two guys working 8 hours will run it up pretty fast.

My basement is unfinished and my run thru the house was 45’ and it only took me a couple hours. Then outside was 20’ thru conduit and that was quite a bit slower.


One thing to keep in mind you want to know what tub you are getting before you start. I have a Caldera Geneva, and they supply you the sub-panel. It has a dual GFCI in it a 30 amp and a 20 amp. One for the heater and the other for the pumps. So in my case I ran #6 romex to the sub and then (7) #8 wires to the tub.

Once you know what tub you are getting then select the rest of the stuff.   

[bud16415]

Yes I ran ridged PVC and then the last bit I ran flex seal-tite. I ran it all the way into the internal electrical panel in the tub. I see people just get inside the pump area and then string wires over and stick them in the hole. I like the idea of keeping water and electric away from each other when I can.

I test my GFCI about once a month. 

[jamiho]

We have a crawl space, no basement.  Maybe that's why the high cost- no one wants to crawl around int here to run wire!

[hjscm]

mine is crawl space from main panel and about 65' run to where tub is going to be. going to put su panel on wall then run another circuit to tub.  i am building my deck now so that part is easy no crawling under deck.  but i have a straight shot no walls in crawl space to go through and really no bends.

[Beck0101]

FWIW running individual conductor inside conduit inside your house (between your spa panel and your main panel) will be a lot cheaper than running romex.  If you're into saving some money it's worth considering this.

[bud16415]

FWIW running individual conductor inside conduit inside your house (between your spa panel and your main panel) will be a lot cheaper than running romex.  If you're into saving some money it's worth considering this.

6/3 romex will be about $1.75 to $2.00 per foot. So figure a 50’ run will be 100 bucks in wire. And depending on where it’s run it could be an hour or two of labor to staple it up.

A 500’ reel of #6 stranded THHN is $226 or $.45 per foot X 4 wires = $1.80 per foot. Conduit will be about $.25 per foot and elbows and pull elbows are not cheap. Then you have the labor of putting it all together and securing it and cutting 4 wires to equal length and then blowing strings thru the conduit and pulling a rope thru to pull the wire bundle thru again labor will be at least 4 times as much IMO.

There is nothing wrong with conduit and you will have to use it outside it is a very good method inside but it will never be lower cost indoors IMO. 

[Beck0101]

FWIW running individual conductor inside conduit inside your house (between your spa panel and your main panel) will be a lot cheaper than running romex.  If you're into saving some money it's worth considering this.

6/3 romex will be about $1.75 to $2.00 per foot. So figure a 50’ run will be 100 bucks in wire. And depending on where it’s run it could be an hour or two of labor to staple it up.

A 500’ reel of #6 stranded THHN is $226 or $.45 per foot X 4 wires = $1.80 per foot. Conduit will be about $.25 per foot and elbows and pull elbows are not cheap. Then you have the labor of putting it all together and securing it and cutting 4 wires to equal length and then blowing strings thru the conduit and pulling a rope thru to pull the wire bundle thru again labor will be at least 4 times as much IMO.

There is nothing wrong with conduit and you will have to use it outside it is a very good method inside but it will never be lower cost indoors IMO.

Did you mean 6/4 or 6/3 with ground?  I did the comparison at Lowe's when I bought my supplies and the 4 conductor in conduit was about half the price for me, all-in.  I was comparing to four conductor romex.  I don't think I was getting it for $2.00 per foot though.  As  you said - it all becomes equal once you leave the house.

[bud16415]

FWIW running individual conductor inside conduit inside your house (between your spa panel and your main panel) will be a lot cheaper than running romex.  If you're into saving some money it's worth considering this.

6/3 romex will be about $1.75 to $2.00 per foot. So figure a 50’ run will be 100 bucks in wire. And depending on where it’s run it could be an hour or two of labor to staple it up.

A 500’ reel of #6 stranded THHN is $226 or $.45 per foot X 4 wires = $1.80 per foot. Conduit will be about $.25 per foot and elbows and pull elbows are not cheap. Then you have the labor of putting it all together and securing it and cutting 4 wires to equal length and then blowing strings thru the conduit and pulling a rope thru to pull the wire bundle thru again labor will be at least 4 times as much IMO.

There is nothing wrong with conduit and you will have to use it outside it is a very good method inside but it will never be lower cost indoors IMO.

Did you mean 6/4 or 6/3 with ground?  I did the comparison at Lowe's when I bought my supplies and the 4 conductor in conduit was about half the price for me, all-in.  I was comparing to four conductor romex.  I don't think I was getting it for $2.00 per foot though.  As  you said - it all becomes equal once you leave the house.

6/3 w/ground

The prices I got came from a quick glance at Lowes. Again nothing wrong at all with conduit it is the way to go. It will be much more labor intensive though.

The other side of it is if you are going a ways outside the house and not mounting your sub panel on the outside of the house. It is not allowed to make a long run of romex thru a conduit plus it is next to impossible to get a 6/3 w/g thru a conduit of any distance. The proper way then would be to put a jbox where the transition from romex to single wires starts. In that case I would run the conduit back to the main and not have to make connections.

What I did was run romex across the basement and where it went thru the basement wall and up to the sub panel I did run it thru a short conduit and a 90 and then a feed conduit to power the sub. About 6’ and not technically out of the house as it is on the face of the house. Code says something about short distances where the conduit protects the romex. I doubt many inspectors would even give that a second look.