Getting the call!

[bud16415]

Neighbor called the other day and said “Hey your hot tub has a leak and water is pouring out the side of your deck.” Just what you want to hear on a cold winter day, and thankful he was walking his dog and saw it.

So I rush out and sure enough water pouring out of the front of the box just below the controls. Our tub is a couple years old and a Caldera Geneva. Pretty much the top of the line from a well respected quality brand I’m told.

I rush around and get the screws out of the cover and have a heck of a time detaching the LED light same as I did when I installed it. Ended up breaking the little plastic bump off the light holder where it snaps in. I get the cover off and here is what I find.



click on thumb to see larger.

That is the lower connection of the frog feeder tube. The hose popped off as the hose clamp was junk. I slipped it on and the leak stopped and the clamp being so cheap wouldn’t tighten. 12k for a hot tub and they use a 29 cent hose clamp. I go to the hardware store and buy a couple high quality clamps for $1.50 each one would have been fine. Here is the comparison between the two clamps cheep one on the left.



The fitting was super long so I put 2 on.



I mentioned before I wasn’t really happy with some of the corner cutting I saw inside the shell. Here are a few photos that show this.

Here is the crazy light adapter that makes it so you cant get the cover off. Shows the broken tab from prying.



Here is the junky soft wood that backs the panels.





Here shows how moisture is wicking in to this crate wood and starting the rotting process at the bottom. The floor is cheap plywood and having been soaked down I’m sure wont help that with a plastic pan on the bottom.



When I bought the tub I asked about could they take the front panel off so I could see the guts and they just laughed. If I was one of these companies I would send out covers for the displays with clear Plexiglas windows to show off the quality.

I made a list of things once and tried to contact Watkins that I felt would make their tub much better and couldn’t contact them. I replied to the comments page and they sent me a size small tee shirt and told me they wouldn’t post a bad review.

All well that ends well. Only lost 200 gallons of water. Just wanted to share. 

[Sorrentino100]

You're luck you weren't on vacation and had the remaining water freeze and crack lines. I wonder if the warranty would have been honored. Hopefully so. You can always post a review on this site and explain what happened. It may save another from repeating your experience.

You caught it in time and made the necessary repair.

Make up for any bitterness and frustration by savoring the serenity once you are back in the tub.

Enjoy!

[silversun]

You're luck you weren't on vacation and had the remaining water freeze and crack lines. I wonder if the warranty would have been honored. Hopefully so. You can always post a review on this site and explain what happened. It may save another from repeating your experience.

You caught it in time and made the necessary repair.

Make up for any bitterness and frustration by savoring the serenity once you are back in the tub.

Enjoy!

I guess this is the optimists view of the situation.
I'm a little more disturbed by this. Caldera/Watkins is often thrown into the conversation with the "most respected" brands, but it's clear by the pictures that Watkins is trying to eek out profits by using the cheapest materials to construct their hot tubs.

I don't think this is unique to Watkins. I believe this is a systemic, industry-wide issue.

Are there independent metrics available so consumers can review trending repair claims across brands? If so, please point me to them.

[bud16415]

Yes very lucky we caught it fast and the weather was not as bad as today we got a foot of snow and the wind chill well below zero.

The cover when I took it off the first time to wire the tub was almost imposable to get off. It has 8 stainless screws bolting it on and it hangs from two aluminum French cleats plus it has the wire going thru it for the LED light. Of course the manual is inside the compartment so it does you no good in figuring all this out. I went on line and read the PDF and it was straight forward remove screws slide the panel up about an inch and lift it off. What they didn’t tell you is the inside frame made from soft wood house framing materials is painted black and the panel was put on and tightened up before the paint had dried. So it was glued in place with black paint. When something is new you are reluctant to really pry on something you just paid a bundle for. I messed around a few hours trying to lift it thinking it must be just tight on the French cleat. Finally I placed two blocks on the deck and two 2x4’s as levers under the bottom of the cover and we both stood on one and bounced and there was a snap as the paint bond broke and the cover was loose. Then another hour fiddling around with the light trying to figure out how to unsnap that. Keep in mind I have worked in the tool and die industry and as a machine designer for 44 years so mechanical things are not strange to me.

Of course this time it was quicker as the paint wasn’t holding and I had a clue how the light worked even though the snap broke this time. The problem this time was replacing the cover. Just the hour or so that the wood got soaked and while I was fixing it the wood started to warp. When I went to put it back on it took both of us to bend it flat to get the cleats to latch. I almost took them off and threw them out as there is no need for them with the screws. My hope is it will dry out and stay somewhat flat as its held flat.

It may seem silly but it bothered me the bright screws had the heads painted after they were installed at the factory to match the plastic wood sides. They have Philips heads and when the tub was new just taking them out caused the paint to chip off. Having worked in a consumer product business my whole life I’m very aware of fit and finish like that. Not a big deal but with a luxury product they should have done it different with a cap or an oxide finish etc.     

I had a bunch of other minor complaints early on and they all went back in my mind to such little problems that could have easily been fixed by a billion dollar company if they implemented a continuous improvement policy.

Like this hose clamp where maybe a quarter was saved is not logical and to a savvy consumer makes me think where else did they shave a dollar here and there. If a company is trying to make a $4k hot tub ok you have to tighten the belt. When you are building your top product in the $12 range there is plenty there for the quality part and there is an inherent belief of the person buying the Cadillac model he is not getting the base Chevy.

It is systemic to some extent I believe also and sadly, no very sadly I find it more and more in American products I review than in imports I would expect to find these things with.

To me it is a hot tub it is full of water and sits outside in the elements. The PT lumber I built my deck from were much suited for the elements than the framing the tub is made from and then no treatment to the wood except cosmetic.

We love our tub and enjoy it a lot. Like autos I have just come to expect this stuff in almost everything I buy anymore. The most disturbing part is companies that don’t value costumer input. I would rather not be out on the internet deterring people from some brand. Maybe that’s how we get the attention of companies like Watkins. Or then again do they even bother to read this stuff.       

[Hottubguy]

Neighbor called the other day and said “Hey your hot tub has a leak and water is pouring out the side of your deck.” Just what you want to hear on a cold winter day, and thankful he was walking his dog and saw it.

So I rush out and sure enough water pouring out of the front of the box just below the controls. Our tub is a couple years old and a Caldera Geneva. Pretty much the top of the line from a well respected quality brand I’m told.

I rush around and get the screws out of the cover and have a heck of a time detaching the LED light same as I did when I installed it. Ended up breaking the little plastic bump off the light holder where it snaps in. I get the cover off and here is what I find.



click on thumb to see larger.

That is the lower connection of the frog feeder tube. The hose popped off as the hose clamp was junk. I slipped it on and the leak stopped and the clamp being so cheap wouldn’t tighten. 12k for a hot tub and they use a 29 cent hose clamp. I go to the hardware store and buy a couple high quality clamps for $1.50 each one would have been fine. Here is the comparison between the two clamps cheep one on the left.



The fitting was super long so I put 2 on.



I mentioned before I wasn’t really happy with some of the corner cutting I saw inside the shell. Here are a few photos that show this.

Here is the crazy light adapter that makes it so you cant get the cover off. Shows the broken tab from prying.



Here is the junky soft wood that backs the panels.





Here shows how moisture is wicking in to this crate wood and starting the rotting process at the bottom. The floor is cheap plywood and having been soaked down I’m sure wont help that with a plastic pan on the bottom.



When I bought the tub I asked about could they take the front panel off so I could see the guts and they just laughed. If I was one of these companies I would send out covers for the displays with clear Plexiglas windows to show off the quality.

I made a list of things once and tried to contact Watkins that I felt would make their tub much better and couldn’t contact them. I replied to the comments page and they sent me a size small tee shirt and told me they wouldn’t post a bad review.

All well that ends well. Only lost 200 gallons of water. Just wanted to share.

That's weird because there are plenty of bad comments on there mixed in with the positive ones. One of the improvements to the new Utopia series is the cabinets. Still a PIA to take off but they are nicer. Anyway glad your neighbor caught it in time before some real damage occurred

[bud16415]

That’s how things are now a day. Things work great until they don’t and then you take a look at how they are built and scratch your head.

I have seen the new Geneva and they made some major changes to the design and how the outside panels look and attach and also moved the lights to a better spot. They took away some features in the process. Have no idea as to what changed inside as I haven’t seen inside one.

I find the function of the tub to be great strong well placed jets that hit a variety of spots and work for a variety of different size people. We love the second control panel in the tub and use that one 99% of the time. I do wish the lights had memory and would stay set the way you had them last. They always come on full and blue. Takes a minute to change them so we just leave them blue. The wrist jets blew off within a month of owning it and can’t be replaced. I think they work better just as small jets rather than spinning jets so I never replaced them. The part of those jets coming off that bothered me is they were broke at the factory and then glued on with RTV. 

[silversun]

Neighbor called the other day and said “Hey your hot tub has a leak and water is pouring out the side of your deck.” Just what you want to hear on a cold winter day, and thankful he was walking his dog and saw it.

So I rush out and sure enough water pouring out of the front of the box just below the controls. Our tub is a couple years old and a Caldera Geneva. Pretty much the top of the line from a well respected quality brand I’m told.

I rush around and get the screws out of the cover and have a heck of a time detaching the LED light same as I did when I installed it. Ended up breaking the little plastic bump off the light holder where it snaps in. I get the cover off and here is what I find.



click on thumb to see larger.

That is the lower connection of the frog feeder tube. The hose popped off as the hose clamp was junk. I slipped it on and the leak stopped and the clamp being so cheap wouldn’t tighten. 12k for a hot tub and they use a 29 cent hose clamp. I go to the hardware store and buy a couple high quality clamps for $1.50 each one would have been fine. Here is the comparison between the two clamps cheep one on the left.



The fitting was super long so I put 2 on.



I mentioned before I wasn’t really happy with some of the corner cutting I saw inside the shell. Here are a few photos that show this.

Here is the crazy light adapter that makes it so you cant get the cover off. Shows the broken tab from prying.



Here is the junky soft wood that backs the panels.





Here shows how moisture is wicking in to this crate wood and starting the rotting process at the bottom. The floor is cheap plywood and having been soaked down I’m sure wont help that with a plastic pan on the bottom.



When I bought the tub I asked about could they take the front panel off so I could see the guts and they just laughed. If I was one of these companies I would send out covers for the displays with clear Plexiglas windows to show off the quality.

I made a list of things once and tried to contact Watkins that I felt would make their tub much better and couldn’t contact them. I replied to the comments page and they sent me a size small tee shirt and told me they wouldn’t post a bad review.

All well that ends well. Only lost 200 gallons of water. Just wanted to share.

That's weird because there are plenty of bad comments on there mixed in with the positive ones. One of the improvements to the new Utopia series is the cabinets. Still a PIA to take off but they are nicer. Anyway glad your neighbor caught it in time before some real damage occurred

Yes, I've heard Watkins had BMW design their new cabinets (a significant expense, I'm sure). You'd think would have also used that $$ to improve the cabinet accessibility in the process, or perhaps to upgrade their cheap clamps which fail.

My point is that their improvements appear to be targeted more towards cosmetic than longterm reliability. I guess the payoff is more immediate.

[Hottubguy]

I have never had a clamp fail before on a watkins tub.  Now granted I've only been selling Watkins for about 3 years.  Some changes were definetely cosmetic but there were a few that upgraded the inside of the tub

[Sam]

Aren't Caldera now made in Mexico?  I've always been suspect of their quality but they do tend to have a good reputation.  Watkins certainly does.  I agree though that those are some silly design choices.

[Hottubguy]

Yes Manufactured in Mexico. Like any other brand they have a issue here and there but overall have been very happy as a dealer with there support and quality. I carry Marquis as well. Warranty claims are about equal on both brands.

[bud16415]

Dealing with mechanical devices and designs my entire life I was not upset that the clamp came loose as all devices can fail and will fail at some rate. At first I thought maybe someone forgot to tighten it enough and with time and thermal cycles the water pressure just worked it loose. I did try and retighten it and that is when I found putting enough torque on the screw to get it to hold just opened the clamp and caused it to jump a tooth. That’s very common on cheap clamps and it was a cheap clamp. I think whoever installed it saw it skip a tooth and just tightened it enough to hold good enough rather than tossing that clamp and using a new one.

The solution is simple use a quality clamp and they never do that.

I was wondering why all the other connections use a different clamp. They all have the wire spring type. Very cheap and hard to service if needed. I would have thought they all would have been the same.

We have plants in Mexico and all around the world and just being in Mexico doesn’t mean you sacrifice quality. The selection of the clamp I’m sure was made my someone in management higher up in the Watkins chain. They don’t send Pedro out to buy a cheap hose clamp that by the way was made in the USA. The photo shows they are both stamped USA.

It is like the choice to use the cheapest grade wood as backing and frame work in the tub. Someone spec was to save a few cents.

The story I have read a couple times now is Watkins went to Mexico to make the fiberglass shells because USA regulations stopped them from shooting a hotter glass mixture and they felt the hotter glass made a stronger shell.

As to the redesign I like the classic style of hot tubs. And the simulated wood is a great improvement over the old real wood sides. That’s a personal preference I’m sure the fancy designer look is popular with others. For me all it has to be is a box on the outside.   

[d00nut]

We have plants in Mexico and all around the world and just being in Mexico doesn’t mean you sacrifice quality.

The story I have read a couple times now is Watkins went to Mexico to make the fiberglass shells because USA regulations stopped them from shooting a hotter glass mixture and they felt the hotter glass made a stronger shell.

Amen.  Bullfrog for me had higher warranty claims then either Hot Spring or Caldera this past year.  Doesn't mean that the quality is worse on BF, that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.  The USA made brands just heavily push the USA mantra, which I totally get, but you are right bud.  It wasn't USA regulations though, it was California.  They could have come to AZ, or anywhere else, but business said... Mexico makes the most sense.  Plus, there are people that actually want factory jobs down there, which is an increasingly hard position to fill in the USA.  Just ask Mike Rowe!

[maddigital]

I have a 2014 Caldera Cantabria and had a simiar situation happen to me last winter. Scared the crap out of me because i open the tub to go in and the water level is down to the seats and the screen is showing a LO error because the water level was lower than the filter box.

Like you I frantically open the main panel where i see water coming out and I find that the jet piping connected to one of the wrist jets on the side of the motors had just backed out. This wasn't a connection that was clamped, it was glued. They used such a small line of glue that a year of usage had cracked the glue and the connnection backed out during a clean cycle when I was at work.  I reattached the pipe with some clear caulking and got a warranty repair. They replaced the entire wrist jet and the connection was glued correctly after that.  The main explanation... the piping on that side is not supported by the insulation so gravity and lack of support caused it to prematurely fail.

I now inspect the control area every 3 months , added supports to all jet lines not embedded inside the insulation and I got the Connextion add on so I get an alert in email if there is an error or the temperature is not maintained so I can go out and check.

My quality issues have been cracked external panels, had 3 replaced in 2 years and now a year later, one of those new ones is cracked again, I had all speakers replaced 3 times in 2 years, the subwoofer was installed with volume on 0 so there was no sound and had to open panels in my 1st month. By no means these are critical other than the bad pipe sealing but not something I expect from their Utopia line and the price they charge.  I still love my tub.. but I put more time into visual maintenance than I should during year 3.

I have to look for photos and post when I find them.
 

[bud16415]

We have plants in Mexico and all around the world and just being in Mexico doesn’t mean you sacrifice quality.

The story I have read a couple times now is Watkins went to Mexico to make the fiberglass shells because USA regulations stopped them from shooting a hotter glass mixture and they felt the hotter glass made a stronger shell.

Amen.  Bullfrog for me had higher warranty claims then either Hot Spring or Caldera this past year.  Doesn't mean that the quality is worse on BF, that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.  The USA made brands just heavily push the USA mantra, which I totally get, but you are right bud.  It wasn't USA regulations though, it was California.  They could have come to AZ, or anywhere else, but business said... Mexico makes the most sense.  Plus, there are people that actually want factory jobs down there, which is an increasingly hard position to fill in the USA.  Just ask Mike Rowe!

You are correct it is Ca. regulations not USA. What we found in business I was in state to state moves often solved the problem but you run the risk of the new state adopting tougher Ca. regulations as that is the trend. Also as you mentioned all we hear about is unemployment in this country and it is really astonishing how hard it is to hire someone still.   

[bud16415]

I also feel like I really keep a closer eye on the tub than I need to. Last night we were in the tub and she said does pump 1 sound ok. LOL my paranoia is spilling over to others I think. I told her I don’t know but its pushing water and that’s all I care about. Then I spent the next 20 minutes listening to the stupid pump, haha.

In my case my failure will go unrecorded as I fixed it myself. I don’t know if you can put in a claim after the fact. I know it would have cost a fair amount to call someone out for the simple repair.