Cloudy water

[bradleyabell]

I’m really dumbfounded as to why my water is SUPER cloudy all of a sudden. I’ve used multiple brands of test strips and everything is right where it’s supoosed to be (ph, alk, bromine, calcium hardness).

I shocked it earlier today with dichlor and also added leisure time bright
And clear which did nothing to help the cloudy water.  Any ideas?

[Tman122]

I’m really dumbfounded as to why my water is SUPER cloudy all of a sudden. I’ve used multiple brands of test strips and everything is right where it’s supoosed to be (ph, alk, bromine, calcium hardness).

I shocked it earlier today with dichlor and also added leisure time bright
And clear which did nothing to help the cloudy water.  Any ideas?

Have you introduced anything to the water that was on your bodies, in your hair or in your suits?

[bradleyabell]

I’m really dumbfounded as to why my water is SUPER cloudy all of a sudden. I’ve used multiple brands of test strips and everything is right where it’s supoosed to be (ph, alk, bromine, calcium hardness).

I shocked it earlier today with dichlor and also added leisure time bright
And clear which did nothing to help the cloudy water.  Any ideas?

Have you introduced anything to the water that was on your bodies, in your hair or in your suits?

 We did have friends over the other night, and it became cloudy after that but nothing out of the ordinary.

[bud16415]

Several times I have had a similar problem after friends join us in the tub. It could be any number of things. When we tub alone we don’t wear swimsuits and we shower right before using the tub. We are careful about body lotions and use them after but not before. We never wash our swimsuits with soap just rinse and dry. When friends join us the bather load is doubled and most of the time the duration time using the tub is double or more. So that alone is 8 times the usage and if your guests have some body lotions or soap left in swimwear that could double again.

I have found whenever we have guests to hit the water a little extra right away and not wait till the next morning. Also it doesn’t hurt to have the chlorine level a little high to start off.

Once it gets cloudy it will take a little while for your treatment to clear it up. 

[bradleyabell]

Several times I have had a similar problem after friends join us in the tub. It could be any number of things. When we tub alone we don’t wear swimsuits and we shower right before using the tub. We are careful about body lotions and use them after but not before. We never wash our swimsuits with soap just rinse and dry. When friends join us the bather load is doubled and most of the time the duration time using the tub is double or more. So that alone is 8 times the usage and if your guests have some body lotions or soap left in swimwear that could double again.

I have found whenever we have guests to hit the water a little extra right away and not wait till the next morning. Also it doesn’t hurt to have the chlorine level a little high to start off.

Once it gets cloudy it will take a little while for your treatment to clear it up.

We ended up draining and cleaning the tub completely...Both my wife and I started getting these little red bumps all over our legs and waist areas.  I'm assuming this is something that came from the tub.  I've gotten this once before on a cruise after being in their tubs a lot.  It did end up going away on its own after a week or so.

[someguy]

Hi Bradleyabell:  When you say you cleaned and drained the tub completely I assume you did use a plumbing cleaner for the piping and jets.  If you did, good job.  If you did not do this, you really should.  In all probability, you have a Biofilm formation in your plumbing that may be causing the folliculitis you have noticed.  A good rule is to flush your plumbing twice a year for most hot tubs.  I realize that many people on this forum are not big on recommending plumbing cleaners.  You need to do this.  Plus, your water maintenance will be much easier when the bio-buildup is eliminated.  Just draining the tub and cleaning the shell is only half the job.  A good analogy is that when you do dishes you actually wipe and sometimes scrub the utensils, plates or dishes or pans.  Not doing so and just rinsing means that you will be consuming your next meal on half cleaned cookware and  utensils.  You should read up about Pontiac Fever and how it can affect hot tub users. 

[Cora5]

So should the plumbing be cleaned before using a new hot tub? Bradlyabel just purchased his hot tub not long ago. If I recall, it hasn't been three months yet.

[bradleyabell]

Hi Bradleyabell:  When you say you cleaned and drained the tub completely I assume you did use a plumbing cleaner for the piping and jets.  If you did, good job.  If you did not do this, you really should.  In all probability, you have a Biofilm formation in your plumbing that may be causing the folliculitis you have noticed.  A good rule is to flush your plumbing twice a year for most hot tubs.  I realize that many people on this forum are not big on recommending plumbing cleaners.  You need to do this.  Plus, your water maintenance will be much easier when the bio-buildup is eliminated.  Just draining the tub and cleaning the shell is only half the job.  A good analogy is that when you do dishes you actually wipe and sometimes scrub the utensils, plates or dishes or pans.  Not doing so and just rinsing means that you will be consuming your next meal on half cleaned cookware and  utensils.  You should read up about Pontiac Fever and how it can affect hot tub users.

Yes!  I did use a pipe flush cleaner!  I’m really wondering what’s going on now though as I refilled it and heated it up today. Balanced the chemicals and then added sodium bromide along with the floater and shocked it with MPS and I’m not getting any bromine readout. Any advice??

[someguy]

To answer Cora5. Yes.  Brand new hot tubs should have their plumbing purged since the  hot tub testing at the factory has left moisture inside the plumbing that can cause problems with maintenance going forward.  I am a  chlorine believer and not really an advocate of bromine.  There are some advantages with bromine but many disadvantages as well.  Keep it simple.  Use dichlor and sometimes mps.  Easy to use and monitor.  All hot tubs need to have their plumbing purged at least twice per year.  I am sure that many of you have read or heard about the lady who died as a result of Legionella at the Graceland pool and spa in July.  Google it! Nine other people were also infected with Legionella.  These were vessels that were being treated with sanitizers and all seemed well. They were also vessels where biofilm was pervasive throughout the system.  Hot tub owners, purge the plumbing and jets at least twice annually.  You need to do this.  It is inexpensive and will reap you huge benefits.  Many manufacturers and dealers are quiet about this.  They need to be proactive.  Hot tubs that are well maintained are great.  I use my hot tub daily.  It is wonderful.  Nothing better.
Just purge the biofilm periodically and enjoy a healthy soak.  You will see lots of replies tomorrow from dealers who are saying something different and telling you you don’t have to do this.  I am basing my input on proven science.  You should read about biofilm in hot tubs and what this can mean.

[Tman122]

To answer Cora5. Yes.  Brand new hot tubs should have their plumbing purged since the  hot tub testing at the factory has left moisture inside the plumbing that can cause problems with maintenance going forward.  I am a  chlorine believer and not really an advocate of bromine.  There are some advantages with bromine but many disadvantages as well.  Keep it simple.  Use dichlor and sometimes mps.  Easy to use and monitor.  All hot tubs need to have their plumbing purged at least twice per year.  I am sure that many of you have read or heard about the lady who died as a result of Legionella at the Graceland pool and spa in July.  Google it! Nine other people were also infected with Legionella.  These were vessels that were being treated with sanitizers and all seemed well. They were also vessels where biofilm was pervasive throughout the system.  Hot tub owners, purge the plumbing and jets at least twice annually.  You need to do this.  It is inexpensive and will reap you huge benefits.  Many manufacturers and dealers are quiet about this.  They need to be proactive.  Hot tubs that are well maintained are great.  I use my hot tub daily.  It is wonderful.  Nothing better.
Just purge the biofilm periodically and enjoy a healthy soak.  You will see lots of replies tomorrow from dealers who are saying something different and telling you you don’t have to do this.  I am basing my input on proven science.  You should read about biofilm in hot tubs and what this can mean.

I'm not a dealer but replying to the contrary. I have owned about 10-15 tubs. One new and the rest used over the last 25-30 years. I have purged the plumbing before. But not 2 times a year. Maybe 2 times in 10 years. Most manufacturers use heavily chlorinated water to test their tubs. Most consumers never purge their tubs and don't have problems.

If your trying to sell a purge product you would post doomsday scenarios as above.

It is proven science that biofilm "can" build up in hot tubs. But it's not likely in yours. You had friends over that had lotion, cologne, hair spray, laundry soap in their suits and who knows what else.

[Beck0101]

I did not purge my tub when new, nor was I told to.  I've only had cloudy water problems when I let the chlorine levels get away from me (heavy use not met with enough added chlorine).

It takes several days of a good shock and filtering to get the cloudy out.  This is assuming you don't immediately default to changing the water.  For me it always came back to perfect the two or three times this has happened.  Patience and lots of extra filter cycles (run the jets) helps.

For me the "cloudy water conundrum" is what drove me to a bromine floater.  It helps me keep my levels correct without having to perfectly time dichlor additions.

[someguy]

Actually, I am trying to help readers in this forum enjoy their hot tub in a very safe and healthy environment.  Nothing more than that. 

[Beck0101]

Actually, I am trying to help readers in this forum enjoy their hot tub in a very safe and healthy environment.  Nothing more than that.

Legionella is easily controlled if you follow the steps listed in the owners manual of your spa.  That is, of course, if you believe the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/swimming/resources/legionella-factsheet.pdf

I'm not disagreeing with your emphasis on purging but it's interesting that my Bullfrog manual does not mention it.  Not for new, not for maintaining water quality.  Not even in the trouble shooting section.  If you tried to pass your posts off as opinion followed with some data folks might be more interesting in learning more.  Otherwise it simply comes off as a sales pitch for a purge product as stated above.

[bradleyabell]

To answer Cora5. Yes.  Brand new hot tubs should have their plumbing purged since the  hot tub testing at the factory has left moisture inside the plumbing that can cause problems with maintenance going forward.  I am a  chlorine believer and not really an advocate of bromine.  There are some advantages with bromine but many disadvantages as well.  Keep it simple.  Use dichlor and sometimes mps.  Easy to use and monitor.  All hot tubs need to have their plumbing purged at least twice per year.  I am sure that many of you have read or heard about the lady who died as a result of Legionella at the Graceland pool and spa in July.  Google it! Nine other people were also infected with Legionella.  These were vessels that were being treated with sanitizers and all seemed well. They were also vessels where biofilm was pervasive throughout the system.  Hot tub owners, purge the plumbing and jets at least twice annually.  You need to do this.  It is inexpensive and will reap you huge benefits.  Many manufacturers and dealers are quiet about this.  They need to be proactive.  Hot tubs that are well maintained are great.  I use my hot tub daily.  It is wonderful.  Nothing better.
Just purge the biofilm periodically and enjoy a healthy soak.  You will see lots of replies tomorrow from dealers who are saying something different and telling you you don’t have to do this.  I am basing my input on proven science.  You should read about biofilm in hot tubs and what this can mean.

I'm not a dealer but replying to the contrary. I have owned about 10-15 tubs. One new and the rest used over the last 25-30 years. I have purged the plumbing before. But not 2 times a year. Maybe 2 times in 10 years. Most manufacturers use heavily chlorinated water to test their tubs. Most consumers never purge their tubs and don't have problems.

If your trying to sell a purge product you would post doomsday scenarios as above.

It is proven science that biofilm "can" build up in hot tubs. But it's not likely in yours. You had friends over that had lotion, cologne, hair spray, laundry soap in their suits and who knows what else.

I'm just curious as to why we all developed these bumps all over our bodies...Had to be something with biofilm buildup...

[dlleno]

I'll just chime in with my own experience here.  the level of maintenance that people apply to their tubs varies greatly, especially with regards to purging.  you have to decide what works for you because there are just too many variables, including bather load and external contaminants such as lotions not to mention bio contaminants. 

Rather than take someones word for it, or apply someone else's recommendation, I found that the best way is to err on the side of caution, but to experiment so that you know what works for your tub and your bather load, etc.  Personally I went through a lengthy process to learn how to control biofilms, and yes my brand new spa was delivered from the factory contaminated with biofilms that I could not control until I purged.  the product I used is a subject for another day, as there are just too many opinions - my choice was based on experimenting with several products which I blogged about.  but I digress.

what I learned is this:

1.  ALWAYS purge a new spa before using it.  don't listen to the mfg, don't listen to the store -- their objectives are sometimes different than yours, as they are trying to sell a life style, and you are trying to minimize risk.  yes many (including me) have successfully operated brand new spas without purging them first -- I just learned that it is better, easy, less risky, and very cheap to do so.

2.  ALWAYS purge a used spa that you purchase.  these usually/often require multiple purges to get things clean.

3.  When you start out, purge on every drain interval.  you will be able to judge, by the amount and appearance of the material that you dislodge, whether you should purge the next drain or skip one (or more).  After I gained control over my biofilms, I ended up purging every other drain.  your mileage may vary -- if you have a heavy load and/or contaminants you will know it and you will decide how often to purge.  Personally, I can't imagine going more than two drain intervals without purging, but I will also say that this sort of learning only comes from using an effective purge product that dislodges the bad guys.  there are many products out there that are good placebos, and they convince spa owners that they don't  need to purge because they don't release any material!  so you gotta choose a product that is effective. 

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to purge.  this is not to be confused with disinfecting or sanitizing or decontamination.  this is the application of an effective purge product to your water right before you drain.  the purpose of the purge product is to dislodge and kill biofilms and other residues, from the pipes, equipment, and filters.  make sure you find a product that actually works, not just claims to work -- I've been there done that. 

The most effective purge process is combined with elevated chlorine levels so that you get guaranteed kill rates plus the dislodging and killing properties of the purge product itself.  yes a good purge product will contribute to the kill, in addition to releasing material.  Once you understand (and witness what it looks like) that purging eliminates the food supply for the bad guys, in addition to removing the bad guys themselves (that a decon procedure will not do) you develop an appreciation for the huge benefit-to-effort ratio that purging accomplishes. 

one more comment about wet testing at the factory. thats the problem, not the solution.  biofilms build up in the moisture that such a process produces.  add warm weather, transit and storage times, and you have the recipe.