Will Jacuzzi stand up to a Canadian Winter?

[Snowjob]

Hi, great site, lots of good info here!!

We are about to buy our first tub, it will be located at a cottage near a lake in Ontario, Canada (3 hours north of Toronto), we will use it on weekends only.  Its possible we will be away from it for 2 to 3 weeks at a time.

I am curious what will happen when the outside temp is -30c and the power fails, obviously eventually the tub will freeze up and we will have a very nice tub shaped ice cube, it will probably look quite cool if the LEDs light up the ice cube.....

That said, while power outages longer than a few hours are rare, I am wondering how long a tub like a Jacuzzi J-470 will be safe before it will freeze up.  I am assuming that heat from the water will radiate down into the pump area and keep that space warm.  However there is not very much insulation on the door to the pumps.  So the big question is how long will the hot water keep the tub from freezing, and at what point do you need to come up with plan B, eg get in the car, drive 3 hours and start to drain the tub / connect a BIG generator or other........

Does anyone have any experience with Jacuzzi and the Canadian winters?

Artic Spa say they have tested their tub, and at -30c it will last 5 days before freezing.  That could be sales BS, but who knows

thanks!!

[danthespaman316]

I'm in Kansas but I watch hockey which means I'm qualified to answer this. I've seen full foam insulated tubs like Jacuzzi last as long as 6 days at constant freezing temps. However, at 30C below I'd probably figure on closer to 3 days. That approximation is the amount of time before your lines starts to freeze and crack. If rigid plumbing parts like manifolds start bursting you'll be out at least $1500 to fix the unit, and that's assuming there is a spa repair guy close by who won't gouge you. Jacuzzi does offer an optional insulation wrap for the cabinet, similar to the one the Arctic guy raved about. That addition helps insulate the equipment area and may buy you an extra day. I'd also shell out for the thicker cover as that is the main point of heat loss and is just a sound investment that far north. 

I'm going to assume that a salesman would never flat out lie to your face and further assume that the guy meant 5 days before every last drop of water in your tub is frozen solid.   

Regardless of what you get, go full foam. Good luck. Go Blackhawks!

[Tman122]

Yea, here in Northern Mn I always tell people they are pretty safe for 3 days. Leave the cover down tight. Any longer at below 0 and you need a drain and water evac strategy. A simple trouble light in the equipment bay can buy more time but this should be monitored.

[bud16415]

My tub has a dual GFCI breaker one for the heater and one for the rest of the tub and is programed in the event of a heater failure to set the tub into survival mode running the pump sparingly to use the tub water to keep the equipment from freezing. Heater failure is another way a tub can get into trouble in cold climate. That system will do nothing for power outage though. For that you would need a backup generator.

We live right across Lake Erie and get those -30 periods and some power loss due to the weather. Your main problem is going to be early warning of an outage and getting there or having a plan with someone there to help you out if that happens. Friends or neighbor that can call if the outage is more than say half a day long. Not sure is there is any web based method of alert out there. You should also make sure the tub resets after an outage. Something to ask the dealer about. I’m pretty sure they all do.
 
Do you have a person up there that will monitor the sanitizer as well if you may not be there for a month?

Good luck and let us know what your plan will be. 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Keep a small space heater on hand to place inside the equipment compartment in case of emergency and also if you have a Fleet Farm or other farming related supply store nearby a 'cattle tank heater' which floats on the surface of the water and will just stay warm enough so the water doesn't freeze is also something we frequently use during Minnesota winters in emergency situations.

[bud16415]

Keep a small space heater on hand to place inside the equipment compartment in case of emergency and also if you have a Fleet Farm or other farming related supply store nearby a 'cattle tank heater' which floats on the surface of the water and will just stay warm enough so the water doesn't freeze is also something we frequently use during Minnesota winters in emergency situations.

Are those powered off gas?

[Snowjob]

thanks for the reply's and ideas,

We are planing on getting the internet connection pack for the Jacuzzi.  We also have the cottage furnace controlled by an Ecobee thermostat that can be remote monitored.  I intend, as part of my morning routine when I am away from that location, to fire up the jacuzzi app and see what the tub is doing every morning.  If the power is out, the app will not connect as the internet will be down, thus I can start a timer....call a friend....get in the car..etc.. chances are the power will be back within a few hours, but at least I will know and have some hope of engaging the 'Emergency Tub Plan'.

It would be nice if the the Jacuzzi app sent a daily status report email that could be scheduled for say 7am.  Concept being, as you check your morning emails you see the 'all is well in the tub' email every day......except the day when the power is out.....the lack of this email will cause you to investigate further.

Unfortunately the furnace app does not off the daily all is well email.

As for chemicals, we do NOT have someone who can go and check each day or so.  Is this a big deal??  Is it not possible to own a hot tub where you only use it every couple of weeks on the weekend and do not look at it in between, because you are not physically there to do so.

I am hoping to be able to be away from it for 2 to 3 weeks and then show up late on a Friday night and hop in it - is this reasonable?  Do I need one of those floating mushroom chemical dispenser thing?  (maybe I start another topic on this)

thanks

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Keep a small space heater on hand to place inside the equipment compartment in case of emergency and also if you have a Fleet Farm or other farming related supply store nearby a 'cattle tank heater' which floats on the surface of the water and will just stay warm enough so the water doesn't freeze is also something we frequently use during Minnesota winters in emergency situations.

Are those powered off gas?

no, just like space heaters they are electric and you'll run them off an extension cord, obviously these scenario's are for a Hot Tub failure and not a complete power outage (unless you do happen to have a generator of course) which like mentioned above a premium full foam spa with a good cover will "not freeze" for roughly 3-5 days...if you lose ALL power for 3-5 days you have bigger concerns that your hot tub lol

[Snowjob]

yeah, on the grand scheme of things if all power is gone for 3+ days you have bigger problems (beer freezing), house pipes freezing and so on

my most important thing to learn was that at -30c a J470 pump area is not going to freeze up in only 1 to 2 hours, I likely have 24 to 36 hours and as such it is very rare that the power will be out longer than that.

[d00nut]

Placing a sump pump without a plumbing line in the bottom of the spa will also keep it nice and warm.  That's what we do in the event that a power outage last really long.  (Doesn't have to be a big sump pump either.)

[bud16415]

My tub has an inline feeder system with cartridges for sanitation that are intended to slowly release product and if the tub is balanced it should be good after 3 weeks. There are also tubs with built in chlorine generators that convert salt water in the tub to sanitizer day in and day out. These can be part of the tub from the manufacture or added into the tub or there are even after market unites that are independent of the tub. The cartridges are sized for one month. The salt gen units will go indefinably.

The only time I use my inline system is when I go away for a few weeks. The rest of the time I just dose the tub manually after we get out. Doing that saves a little money and I feel is a little more accurate because of how the bather load is up and down in our tub.

The worse thing would be getting a brand new tub and using it heavy for a week and then leaving it for a month with the inline feeder set to what your dealer might recommend and coming back and finding you weren’t putting in enough sanitizer to keep up. It took me about 3 months to get a good feel of how much was needed when. If you have a new tub like that and use it heavy and know you are going to be gone for 3 weeks I would set the feeder to the maintain setting and then hit the tub very hard with sanitizer right before I left. If normal you would like to see 2PPM I would dose it by hand up to maybe 10-20 PPM leave it open for an hour drop the temp to 98-100f make sure the cover was down tight and strapped and locked and leave. On returning I would open it up turn it back up to 103-104 and test the water. should be 2-5 PPM. It will only take it an hour or two to warm up, and then jump in.   

[Tman122]

Placing a sump pump without a plumbing line in the bottom of the spa will also keep it nice and warm.  That's what we do in the event that a power outage last really long.  (Doesn't have to be a big sump pump either.)

I'm not following? If there is no power a sump pump won't work. But if you are concerned about a power outage you should keep a small generator. And I guess that will run a sump pump. I get moving the water around to keep it from freezing but I think the water in the vessel is pretty safe. It's the water in the lines I worry about.

And actually if you are concerned about a power outage you should have a generator for your heating system in your house. And drain your tub.