beachcomber 720AE or caldera niagra

[justaguy]

hello everyone, I tried buying a hot tub a couple of years back and suffered from info overload and gave up but I am thank full for all the help I got. I have wet tested both and like both but I think I like the caldera more...I guess my question is this...what company would be the best to deal with? I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet but I have read both good and a few horror stories for both companies and I'm not really interested in more headaches (and who is) any info on which lasts longer better warranty better customer service would be greatly welcomed. has anyone had serious problems and were they taken care of without having to beg plead and cry..thanks guys I really want a tub but damn its so hard weeding through all the info and misinformation

[d00nut]

I have little to no experience with Beachcomber.  I have a dealer friend who use to be bigger with them, but it looks like they really pulled out of the USA, so I would say State side support would most certainly be worse then Caldera on a manufacturer standpoint.

However, with that said... your question comes down to the dealer.  Watkins (Caldera) is a dream for the most part for me to work with.  Course... I have an awesome relationship with those people.  Check the dealer out.  Reviews, testimonials, gut feelings.  Go from there.

[justaguy]

thanks...I'm up here in Canada...and I really like both sales people I dealt with...maybe the caldera dealer a bit more

[Tman122]

I live in Northern Minnesota. Dealers come and go up here. Our Beachcomber dealer has remained. That tells me a lot about the brand.

I like Caldera but we do not have a local dealer.

[hottubdan]

I have little to no experience with Beachcomber.  I have a dealer friend who use to be bigger with them, but it looks like they really pulled out of the USA, so I would say State side support would most certainly be worse then Caldera on a manufacturer standpoint.

However, with that said... your question comes down to the dealer.  Watkins (Caldera) is a dream for the most part for me to work with.  Course... I have an awesome relationship with those people.  Check the dealer out.  Reviews, testimonials, gut feelings.  Go from there.

Ditto.  It is an open secret in the industry that Watkins has deeper customer support than other manufacturers.  Are they perfect? No.  Do they tend to bend over backwards to support the dealer and the customer?  I would says so.  But again, it comes down to relationships between the dealer and manufacturer, and dealer and customer.

[bud16415]

I don’t know a lot about Beachcomber but own a Caldera Geneva the Niagara is the same as the Geneva without the lounger. I can tell you we love our tub and haven’t had any real issues with it in the first 3 years. Living in a colder climate I like the insulation system better than full foam and I liked the split GFCI circuit breaker better as it allows for when a heater fails the tub will go into survival mode and circulate water into the equipment space to prevent freezing up until help arrives in a few days. The Caldera tub has fiber-cor dense pack insulation. If you ever get a leak it can be pulled out the repair made and packed back in. foam has to be cut out. That and the Watkins reputation is what we liked. The Beachcomber has the equipment under the steps from what I saw on their page. Not sure if I like it out in the cold like that.   

[Tman122]

The Beachcomber has the equipment under the steps from what I saw on their page. Not sure if I like it out in the cold like that.

They have both, under a step outside or in an equipment bay. The step design is both insulated and warmed by the circ pump for cold weather and vented for warm weather. If the power goes out you can bring the step inside. The vessel and plumbing on the tub is completely surrounded by foam to extend the time before freeze. Not a bad idea but I doubt you gain much time versus any other high quality design.

FYI most modern tubs have freeze protection that will run the pump when the water in the plumbing gets below a set temp, even if the heater isn't working.

[bud16415]

FYI most modern tubs have freeze protection that will run the pump when the water in the plumbing gets below a set temp, even if the heater isn't working.

I know that if the heater opens and does not short out. It is my understanding a very common heater problem is weeping and causes a GFCI fault condition. Once the GFCI trips the tub on a single breaker can do nothing as it has no power. I agree if something malfunctions in the heater control circuit and the heater just wont come on then the tub will cool down and any sensor system could keep water moving if the outside temp is cold enough for a freeze.

No one when I was shopping seamed to know anything about these systems or how they work.

I had to find all the information on my tub by asking around the dealer had no clue why the tub had a dual GFCI.

[Tman122]

FYI most modern tubs have freeze protection that will run the pump when the water in the plumbing gets below a set temp, even if the heater isn't working.

I know that if the heater opens and does not short out. It is my understanding a very common heater problem is weeping and causes a GFCI fault condition. Once the GFCI trips the tub on a single breaker can do nothing as it has no power. I agree if something malfunctions in the heater control circuit and the heater just wont come on then the tub will cool down and any sensor system could keep water moving if the outside temp is cold enough for a freeze.

No one when I was shopping seamed to know anything about these systems or how they work.

I had to find all the information on my tub by asking around the dealer had no clue why the tub had a dual GFCI.

You are correct and it is common here in Minnesota to disconnect a heater that is weaping/shorting to allow the pump to function until a repair can be facilitated. I've even direct wired pumps until I could get a new heater installed. We get creative in cold weather.

[bud16415]

FYI most modern tubs have freeze protection that will run the pump when the water in the plumbing gets below a set temp, even if the heater isn't working.

I know that if the heater opens and does not short out. It is my understanding a very common heater problem is weeping and causes a GFCI fault condition. Once the GFCI trips the tub on a single breaker can do nothing as it has no power. I agree if something malfunctions in the heater control circuit and the heater just wont come on then the tub will cool down and any sensor system could keep water moving if the outside temp is cold enough for a freeze.

No one when I was shopping seamed to know anything about these systems or how they work.

I had to find all the information on my tub by asking around the dealer had no clue why the tub had a dual GFCI.

You are correct and it is common here in Minnesota to disconnect a heater that is weaping/shorting to allow the pump to function until a repair can be facilitated. I've even direct wired pumps until I could get a new heater installed. We get creative in cold weather.

Yep those are two good ideas for cold weather. Not sure if I would advise the average home owner to do that but if you get a tech out and they don’t have the part yet that would be a good way to buy some time.

I’m relatively new to all this home hot tub stuff as I’m just a first time owner and just a home owner. I have worked around cold weather equipment and pumps a lot though, so that is my only background.

I’m sure you have seen tubs that froze up. I have no idea if it is common or not , but what kind of damage do you see if an equipment bay freezes? Are there tubs with alarms and such? Any type plumbing and pumps better than others at surviving?

[Tman122]

I’m sure you have seen tubs that froze up. I have no idea if it is common or not , but what kind of damage do you see if an equipment bay freezes? Are there tubs with alarms and such? Any type plumbing and pumps better than others at surviving?

Generally the tubs I see with freeze damage are those that the owners don't use much. Then when they go out and check it and it hasn't been running for a while, they call. If you check it every day you won't have this issue. Shut down damage can be mitigated if it's caught the same day. I don't always drain right away depending on the problem and availability of parts. Hence running the pump, inserting a heater or light into the equipment area, or in extreme cold the "tent" I have a 12'x12' tent that can be easily erected around the tub and heated with propane fired forced air.

There are weak spots in the plumbing that break first. If I come across a frozen tub the first course of action is thaw. Then you can find the weak spots by looking for drips. The connections at the heater tube is common. Maybe a fitting close to the outside edge of the tub on either suction or pressure side. I have also seen manifolds split. But if any fittings are cracked or split because of freeze a drain is required, drain and then thaw if the damage is obvious. Most of these cases the customer chooses to wait till warmer weather to complete the repair. But I encourage leak location first.

It's a funny game and it's almost always on older tubs that aren't used much.