Spa Frog / Nature 2 / Others ?

[bradleyabell]

I have been doing some research and I definitely want a low maintenance system, but am not really sure what system I should go with.  I am debating between the spa frog floating system or the Nature 2.  If there are any other opinions out there I would love to hear them.  I know the frog system is a little pricey...I definitely want to keep costs low, while keeping maintenance low as well.

Not 100% sure if I want a bromine or chlorine system yet either.  I know with the Nature 2, you cannot use bromine.  Not sure if anyone uses the Nature 2, and if so what you use to supplement the minerals.  I've heard you should use MPS with it and dichlor.

Please help!

[Conine2965]

I have spa frog in line works pretty good but is expensive 13 bucks for chlorine cartridge doesn't last a month. I find mineral cartridge either king and dichlor after each use is the simplest and easiest system.

[bud16415]

Ask the question and you can get 30 different answers and none are wrong. A lot of it has to do with how you use the tub and how troubled you would be to spend 5 minutes per day to maintain the tub. If you plan on using it everyday with the same amount of people for about the same amount of time and seldom go away for long periods of weeks at a time. The simplest method is to just check the tub prior to getting in with a 20 cent test strip. If you shower before you get in and have clean rinsed swim suit. It will be a simple matter to feed it when you get out turn on the clean cycle and close the tub up in 10 minutes later. Within a week you will know when to add more or less based on how many were in and for how long.

My tub has an expensive inline frog system that I don’t use unless I’m going away for a week or two.

Put me down for dichlor as well.

[bradleyabell]

So do you guys skip the bromine and just use the spa frog mineral cartridge/Nature2 and dichlor??

[bud16415]

So do you guys skip the bromine and just use the spa frog mineral cartridge/Nature2 and dichlor??

Pretty much. I have the mineral in and also an empty bromine. I really wonder if the minerals do anything as well. But I had some so they are in there. I dose every time we use the tub or once a day if required. I do a test strip before we get in quite often and it is normally down around 2PPM chlorine we use the tub and I toss in 1 tablespoon of dichlor for a 400 gallon tub. I do that after a water change until the stabilizer gets into the safe area and then I don’t use dichlor I switch to Clorox bleach. The stabilizer will stay fixed and not get too high if it drops a little I will switch back to the granular dichlor. About every other week when I notice the water is loosing its sparkle I do a non chlorine shock and that’s pretty much it along with watching the PH.

If I want to push the water change a month in the winter say I drain the tub down a foot and refill it.

When I go away for a week or two I pop in an @ease cartridge with enough @ease chlorine in it for how long I will be gone. To do that I pry the cap off and dump out what I know I wont use when I’m gone and save it for next time.

It is unorthodox but works for me and is the least cost involved and has the water with the least amount of chlorine in it right when I use it.     

[bradleyabell]

What do you use for the stabilizer and what does that do?

[Tman122]

Not 100% sure if I want a bromine or chlorine system yet either.  I know with the Nature 2, you cannot use bromine.  Not sure if anyone uses the Nature 2, and if so what you use to supplement the minerals.  I've heard you should use MPS with it and dichlor.

Please help!

It's important to note that the minerals are supplementing the sanitizer. Not the other way around. You can go without minerals but you can't go without sanitizer.

[bud16415]

What do you use for the stabilizer and what does that do?

Stabilizer is in the dichlor. Stabilizer is used in swimming pools to prevent sunlight from breaking down the chlorine to fast. In a pool exposed to the sun you need to replenish the stabilizer so it is included in the dichlor. In a covered hot tub if you just use dichlor only it keeps increasing. You want some as I’m told it slows the action of the chlorine and allows it to protect the tub longer. Too much is not a good thing though. I find if I stop using dichlor when the stabilizer reaches the correct level and then switch to regular old Clorox bleach that has no stabilizer, I can save money and make my water last longer and stay more in control over that time. Eventually all stuff builds up in the water and it is time to change it no matter what system you use.

To my way of thinking and I could be wrong, but the least I put in the better as long as the job is getting done and the more the filter takes out as dirt and also dead things the longer the water will last. So I try and put the least amount of chemicals and try and introduce the least amount of contaminates.   

[bradleyabell]

So the Dichlor stabilizes the chlorine, but what do you use to add chlorine?  I have also read much about using MPS+dichlor.

I am on the fence and am considering using either the Nature2+MPS+dichlor or the frog filter mineral stick+a bromine floater.

[bud16415]

Dichlor (di = 2 chlor = chlorine) dichlor is the source of the chlorine. There is also trichlor used in swimming pools and comes in the pill form you see people dropping in their skimmer baskets. Trichlor breaks down very fast (too fast) in hot water of a hot tub 100-105f.  The stabilizer is added to the chlorine when you buy dichlor. You get both in the same jar. Because you are not putting it in an open to sunlight tub it builds up faster than it dissipates and having too much stabilizer effects how the chlorine works (slows it down too much). Thus some is good too much bad. Clorox has no stabilizer in it. It is dirt cheap and does virtually the same thing as dichlor. Dichlor is chlorine, Clorox is chlorine.
MPS is an oxidizer and is not chlorine. There are two ways to shock a tub one is a massive dose of chlorine the other is an oxidizer. I use non chlorine shock MPS as my shock of choice. Shocking burns out the dead stuff the chlorine killed and lets the filter take it out.

I am by far not and expert and the experts here can correct me as needed.     

[The Wizard of Spas]

I may be a contrarian, and I am not implying that I am smarter or better informed than others, but I have never had an issue with CYA (Stabilizer) in a standard hot tub cover that is closed.  Yes:  There is some CYA in Di-Chlor.  But generally when that becomes an issue (ie- it is too high), so is your TDS, so on so forth and it is time to drain anyways. 

I understand that a build in CYA can cause issues.  I wonder, though, how much of this is dealers trying to get people to buy chemicals vs the tangible issue at hand? 

This is coming from a former dealer who now works for a manufacturer.  We don't put anything in our fine print about it, and the company who manufactures our chems doesn't mention it to us.

But this is just one point of view....

******

Di-Chlor *is* the chlorine.  Stabilizer is its own thing, but Di-Clor does have trace amounts of stabilizer in it.  Those that worry about it switch to bleach at some point once the CYA is at a level that they take issue with.  Another reason I don't worry is that 2 people in a hot tub is like 20 people in 10k gallon pool.  The only real issue with high CYA is chlorine lock.  But at the aforementioned ratio, its hard to have a tangible issue with it, as you tend to plow through chlorine in hot tubs, so a "lock" isn't going to really take place.  Make sense?

******

The Nature 2/Spa Frog is likely the most common sanitization method out there.  I don't prefer either as they are both the same, realistically.  I have sold both and just prefer N2 cause its cheaper.  If the Frog was cheaper, I'd do that.  Chlorine is cheap and easy but more smell, rougher on the skin.  N2/Frog is softer on the skin and with less odor, but it costs more.

As bud16415 said:  There are numerous ways to sanitize.  There is no wrong answer.  Just wrong ways of executing the method that you choose. 

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

***EDIT:  This was written before the post above me was posted so parts of my response was already answered by others.

[bradleyabell]

Dichlor (di = 2 chlor = chlorine) dichlor is the source of the chlorine. There is also trichlor used in swimming pools and comes in the pill form you see people dropping in their skimmer baskets. Trichlor breaks down very fast (too fast) in hot water of a hot tub 100-105f.  The stabilizer is added to the chlorine when you buy dichlor. You get both in the same jar. Because you are not putting it in an open to sunlight tub it builds up faster than it dissipates and having too much stabilizer effects how the chlorine works (slows it down too much). Thus some is good too much bad. Clorox has no stabilizer in it. It is dirt cheap and does virtually the same thing as dichlor. Dichlor is chlorine, Clorox is chlorine.
MPS is an oxidizer and is not chlorine. There are two ways to shock a tub one is a massive dose of chlorine the other is an oxidizer. I use non chlorine shock MPS as my shock of choice. Shocking burns out the dead stuff the chlorine killed and lets the filter take it out.

I am by far not and expert and the experts here can correct me as needed.   

So basically what you do is use the dichlor to build up a good level of chlorine and then use the MOS to maintain the level.

What would you use the Clorox for. I’m assuming you mean just regular Clorox from the laundry isle??

[bradleyabell]

I may be a contrarian, and I am not implying that I am smarter or better informed than others, but I have never had an issue with CYA (Stabilizer) in a standard hot tub cover that is closed.  Yes:  There is some CYA in Di-Chlor.  But generally when that becomes an issue (ie- it is too high), so is your TDS, so on so forth and it is time to drain anyways. 

I understand that a build in CYA can cause issues.  I wonder, though, how much of this is dealers trying to get people to buy chemicals vs the tangible issue at hand? 

This is coming from a former dealer who now works for a manufacturer.  We don't put anything in our fine print about it, and the company who manufactures our chems doesn't mention it to us.

But this is just one point of view....

******

Di-Chlor *is* the chlorine.  Stabilizer is its own thing, but Di-Clor does have trace amounts of stabilizer in it.  Those that worry about it switch to bleach at some point once the CYA is at a level that they take issue with.  Another reason I don't worry is that 2 people in a hot tub is like 20 people in 10k gallon pool.  The only real issue with high CYA is chlorine lock.  But at the aforementioned ratio, its hard to have a tangible issue with it, as you tend to plow through chlorine in hot tubs, so a "lock" isn't going to really take place.  Make sense?

******

The Nature 2/Spa Frog is likely the most common sanitization method out there.  I don't prefer either as they are both the same, realistically.  I have sold both and just prefer N2 cause its cheaper.  If the Frog was cheaper, I'd do that.  Chlorine is cheap and easy but more smell, rougher on the skin.  N2/Frog is softer on the skin and with less odor, but it costs more.

As bud16415 said:  There are numerous ways to sanitize.  There is no wrong answer.  Just wrong ways of executing the method that you choose. 

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

***EDIT:  This was written before the post above me was posted so parts of my response was already answered by others.

Thank you for this very detailed explanation!!  I am leaning towards using the Nature2 plus dichlor and MPS and not using a floater in my tub. What do you guys think?

[bradleyabell]

Am also curious how you test for the level of CYA and/or stabilizer in your tub.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I may be a contrarian, and I am not implying that I am smarter or better informed than others, but I have never had an issue with CYA (Stabilizer) in a standard hot tub cover that is closed.  Yes:  There is some CYA in Di-Chlor.  But generally when that becomes an issue (ie- it is too high), so is your TDS, so on so forth and it is time to drain anyways. 

I understand that a build in CYA can cause issues.  I wonder, though, how much of this is dealers trying to get people to buy chemicals vs the tangible issue at hand? 

This is coming from a former dealer who now works for a manufacturer.  We don't put anything in our fine print about it, and the company who manufactures our chems doesn't mention it to us.

But this is just one point of view....

******

Di-Chlor *is* the chlorine.  Stabilizer is its own thing, but Di-Clor does have trace amounts of stabilizer in it.  Those that worry about it switch to bleach at some point once the CYA is at a level that they take issue with.  Another reason I don't worry is that 2 people in a hot tub is like 20 people in 10k gallon pool.  The only real issue with high CYA is chlorine lock.  But at the aforementioned ratio, its hard to have a tangible issue with it, as you tend to plow through chlorine in hot tubs, so a "lock" isn't going to really take place.  Make sense?

******

The Nature 2/Spa Frog is likely the most common sanitization method out there.  I don't prefer either as they are both the same, realistically.  I have sold both and just prefer N2 cause its cheaper.  If the Frog was cheaper, I'd do that.  Chlorine is cheap and easy but more smell, rougher on the skin.  N2/Frog is softer on the skin and with less odor, but it costs more.

As bud16415 said:  There are numerous ways to sanitize.  There is no wrong answer.  Just wrong ways of executing the method that you choose. 

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

***EDIT:  This was written before the post above me was posted so parts of my response was already answered by others.

Thank you for this very detailed explanation!!  I am leaning towards using the Nature2 plus dichlor and MPS and not using a floater in my tub. What do you guys think?

MPS is an *OXIDIZER*- It clears out everything, allowing the sanitizer to be more effective.  Di-Chlor is a *SANITIZER* which is the only thing that will really kill all the things you should be worried about.  The only EPA (And APSP)-approved sanitizers are chlorine, bromine, and biguianides.  N2 will need chlorine, so that is why you're learning about it. 

CYA is usually on a pad on a chlorine test strip.  Again- I'd be surprised if CYA is anything you actually need to worry about, for the aforementioned reasons in earlier posts.