Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative

[gizmodo]

We've had our Hot Springs Envoy for less than three years and our second  ACE cell just failed.  The water has always been kept at 25-50 ppm for hardness, and we've never used the boost feature.  I realize these things have a limited life but this is pretty ridiculous, this one lasted less than a year.  Anyway, has anyone tried one of these off brand cells? http://thehottubwizard.com/ace-saltwater-system-replacement-cell/ or http://www.saltwaterhottubconversion.com/saltwater-products/chlorine-generator-parts/replacement-cells/hot-springs-chlorine-replacement-cell.html

[bud16415]

If I switch my tub to salt and there is a very good chance I will soon, I’m going with the Saltron-mini. It is a total after market system and I have seen one in operation and liked it. The cell on those can be cleaned in vinegar. The guy I know says he has excellent cell life in doing that and when you do need to replace it, it is about 100 bucks.

Not sure about the ones you linked.

I do have a question besides the trouble and expense, how do you like the salt water and that method?   

[gizmodo]

I really like the ACE system.  It does what it says to but replacing the cells as often as we've had to I don't see it being a viable solution long term.  The first one was replaced under warranty but I don't anticipate this one will be.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

We've had our Hot Springs Envoy for less than three years and our second  ACE cell just failed.  The water has always been kept at 25-50 ppm for hardness, and we've never used the boost feature.  I realize these things have a limited life but this is pretty ridiculous, this one lasted less than a year.  Anyway, has anyone tried one of these off brand cells? http://thehottubwizard.com/ace-saltwater-system-replacement-cell/ or http://www.saltwaterhottubconversion.com/saltwater-products/chlorine-generator-parts/replacement-cells/hot-springs-chlorine-replacement-cell.html

Common, as I've stated before the cell is built to only last approx. 16-18 months AT MOST...so 2 cells over 3 years is about what to expect roughly, for info on aftermarket options I would wait for d00nut or hottubguy I believe to chime in, they are both Hot Spring dealers and should have info. on those aftermarket options, right when I left Hot Springs those things were just coming onto market so I don't have any personal experience with them.

[bud16415]

Changing a part that expensive every year and a half is ridicules IMO at that price. That is just a case of planned obsolescence and gouging the customer. The proof is in seeing this cheap little aftermarket gadget lasting 4 years now and only soaking it in a glass of vinegar once a month when you are in the tub. Simple and it works longer and is so much less expensive.

Really the only reason I haven’t switched is Dichlor and Clorox is so cheap and simple. The reason I will change is with salt I feel the water feels so much better and smoother.   

[d00nut]

Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems

[Spatech_tuo]

Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems

Perfect example why "who you buy from" matters as much as "what you buy". Its super important to buy from a dealer that is both willing and able to be there for you after the sale.

[gizmodo]

Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems

The highest we set the output to is 4, oftentimes less than that and I've never used the boost function and this cell still failed in less than a year.  The hardness is well within range too.  I change the water every 8 months or so.

When we bought the tub the impression was given that we should get either the ACE system or ozone, but not both.

I bought this tub from Eric (BullFrogSpasMN, previously TwinCitiesHotSpring) so I don't think the who is really a problem here.

Bottom line is it sounds like I might have to be the guinea pig for one of these aftermarket parts unless the local dealer or corporate is willing to take care of this.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems

The highest we set the output to is 4, oftentimes less than that and I've never used the boost function and this cell still failed in less than a year.  The hardness is well within range too.  I change the water every 8 months or so.

When we bought the tub the impression was given that we should get either the ACE system or ozone, but not both.

I bought this tub from Eric (BullFrogSpasMN, previously TwinCitiesHotSpring) so I don't think the who is really a problem here.

Bottom line is it sounds like I might have to be the guinea pig for one of these aftermarket parts unless the local dealer or corporate is willing to take care of this.

Here's the thing with the ACE, (in my opinion only, right or wrong it's simply how I FEEL) is that overall it was/has been a little bit of a letdown to multiple parties involved (dealers who sell them, and customers who buy them included) When this thing came out it was being pitched as something that will revolutionize the hot tub industry, it was on the front page of their website, all over the brochures, signs were placed all over the store, signs placed on every spa, etc. (and why wouldn't it, add a little salt, set a # and voila, easy peasy) well the first couple years was an absolute nightmare (before you bought your spa Gizmodo) well then after multiple revisions it was supposed to have been perfected for more life expectancy and it simply doesn't last in my opinion long enough to warrant the price, pure opinion of course, I realize there are a lot of people out there where $1,000 is "pocket change".  So the manufacturer pushes the business owners, who push the sales guys to sell the thing, and by sell I don't mean "oversell" it but simply try our best to sell it based on factory recommended sales techniques (d00nut and myself have attended factory training together) well unfortunately it still doesn't seem to last and there are still upset customers.  I will say Watkins (makers of Hot Spring) are a very reputable, long standing company in this industry so one thing you could try to do is call their 800 Number and work your way up the supervisor chain and in a nice way simply let them know of your displeasure and see if they'll do anything for you. Good Luck!

[hottubdan]

Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?

[d00nut]

Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?

What he said.  I sell it with both.  Watkins cannot market ACE as an all in one system with Ozone because of what Dan said.  I could give a crap

I'd work with the dealer to see if they can help you out.  I'd then talk to Watkins (as a dealer) to see if they can help me out.  Like I said, I say the cell, if you are doing everything right, should easily last 3 years at a minimum.  If it doesn't, I will prorate the cell, as I feel that is only right.

I cannot speak for everyone though. 

[gizmodo]

Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?

Wow, I dropped the ball on this.  I know the cell has failed because the green light is flashing and no matter what I do it says the cell is offline.  I have cleaned it, I have added salt, I have changed the water and nothing causes the cell to come back online.  There are also little black flakes in the water, which is what I saw the first time the cell failed.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully. 

[Spatech_tuo]

I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully.

Why do people buy hot tubs in the first place? How many literally "need" a hot tub? They buy a hot tub because they want one, hopefully they can truly afford it, they deserve it after a long day at work... No one "needs" a salt system either but they should just know that the trade off for the system is additional cost and if knowing that they want it for convenience, soft water ... then its all good.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully.

Why do people buy hot tubs in the first place? How many literally "need" a hot tub? They buy a hot tub because they want one, hopefully they can truly afford it, they deserve it after a long day at work... No one "needs" a salt system either but they should just know that the trade off for the system is additional cost and if knowing that they want it for convenience, soft water ... then its all good.

Fair enough.  Certainly not knocking it at all.  Just hear about a lot of problems.  But again- Just asking as I was in the minority and am trying to get a better feel as to the "why."  Thanks!