Help deciding between caldera and bullfrog

[silversun]

I've been researching for a while, and after looking at every major hot tub on the market I've finally narrowed my selection to Caldera and Bullfrog. They both appear to make a great hot tub, so I need some help deciding between the two. Any owners of these hot tubs around and can give advice? I could care less about the jets, pumps, or horsepower.
I want something that is spacious, durable, and low maintenance - especially in water chemistry. Bullfrog appears to win on durability, and the caldera wins for the dead simple frog inline system. 

It feels like the bullfrog builds a more durable/ higher quality product than any other hot tub on the market. The design is more simple, so less can go wrong. And I like that bullfrog does not use any wood in the frame or the base. I live in new england so long term durability is a main concern. For some background, I was nearly sold on an optima before I saw this video, and it recalibrated the durability factor in my decision making. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ho5xTye-uI It made me think about longterm.

Some of the caldera's appear similar in their construction to Sundance. I'm guessing the new business model for all major hot tub brands calls for using cheaper materials under the skirts to save money. But I'm wondering how much a wood frame and floor really matters. Any caldera owners in cold climates have issues with their frames?


On the other hand, I'm drawn to Caldera because it seems a little more polished. And the frog inline system is a big plus for me. It seems dead simple, and uses minimal chemicals. Do caldera owners like this system?

Help!

[d00nut]

Silver,

Let me start off by saying that I like Bullfrog and I sell them.  The video you just watched that makes you all concerned is made by someone incredibly biased.  The guy that made it is from Long Island and is so deep in bed with Bullfrog, he'll make every other brand sound like absolute crap.  First he starts off by saying that the customer paid $7k for the tub, and over the next 3 years paid an additional $6k in repairs that should have been covered under warranty.

If that is the case, the customer is flat out stupid.  Also, what was repaired?  He doesn't say.

I'm not sure what Bullfrog the customer purchased, but that also is on Sundance's 700 series, or value price point, hence why there is no ABS sheet on the bottom and just Visqueen. 

He then goes on to shame there equipment compartment for no insulation or very little.  Umm... Bullfrog might look cleaner, but it has no more insulation then that Sundance.  Why?  Because you need to keep the equipment cool...  Sundance and Bullfrog use the exact same insulation!

My warranty redemption as of this year is actually about a half a point higher on Bullfrog than Caldera/Hot Spring (around 3%.)  BTW, I owned a Hot Spring Vanguard (same construction as that crappy Caldera spa) in NH for 3 years with no problems before I moved.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

That Sundance shows what's coming out of Mexico...Cheap pallet wood for a base painted green to look treated, plastic baggy for a bottom on a 7-8k hot tub...ridiculous

[bradleyabell]

The frog system can be used in any tub. For the "non in-line" systems, you can use the floating version.

[bud16415]

We have the Caldera Geneva and it is a very nice tub with a wood frame and ABS base pan. It is sealed fine to keep the outside elements out IMO. Ours is on a wood deck so water and rain drain thru and the tub stays dry. We live 30 miles south of Lake Erie and have brutal winters with -30 temps and 300” of snow some years. The insulation system is very good on the Geneva as I never see any snow melt or ice on the tub. Caldera uses a dual GFCI breaker and the heater is on one half the rest of the tub the other. If the heater goes the tub will be able to circulate water to help with freezing pumps and such in the uninsulated area until help arrives. (nice feature IMO) as is the fiber-cor insulation.

As to the inline frog I’m sure people use it hassle free but it was never the case for me. It seemed when the canister was first put in the dispensing rate was different than when it was nearly used up. if your bather load changes the dispense rate is somewhat fixed. I never felt the minerals did anything much. And I was opening it and adjusting the canister all the time. Not to mention the price. To be honest when we bought ours there was only bromine now there is the @ease chlorine version. I use dichlor and switch to Clorox when the stabilizer point is reached adding it by hand as needed and find it cheaper and more accurate. I do use the @ease in the inline when we go away for a week or more and no one is using it.

I am also still thinking about an aftermarket salt system as I feel that is the best solution overall. Don’t know at what point I will switch over if ever but have a friend with one and really like how his tub feels and the ease of using salt.

Can’t comment on BF but they seem to be really great tubs as well.     

[silversun]

Thanks all for the responses.
Bud, I love the dual breaker config, and it seems unique to caldera. Seems like it could be really useful.

Does the deep corner seat (with neck massage) in your geneva ever get used? I wet tested and felt it was uncomfortable. I'm 6', and the neck pillow was hitting against my upper back. I really want to like the Caldera, but that's probably the biggest issue with it for me.

[Tman122]

Silver,

Let me start off by saying that I like Bullfrog and I sell them.  The video you just watched that makes you all concerned is made by someone incredibly biased.  The guy that made it is from Long Island and is so deep in bed with Bullfrog, he'll make every other brand sound like absolute crap.  First he starts off by saying that the customer paid $7k for the tub, and over the next 3 years paid an additional $6k in repairs that should have been covered under warranty.

If that is the case, the customer is flat out stupid.  Also, what was repaired?  He doesn't say.

I'm not sure what Bullfrog the customer purchased, but that also is on Sundance's 700 series, or value price point, hence why there is no ABS sheet on the bottom and just Visqueen. 

He then goes on to shame there equipment compartment for no insulation or very little.  Umm... Bullfrog might look cleaner, but it has no more insulation then that Sundance.  Why?  Because you need to keep the equipment cool...  Sundance and Bullfrog use the exact same insulation!

My warranty redemption as of this year is actually about a half a point higher on Bullfrog than Caldera/Hot Spring (around 3%.)  BTW, I owned a Hot Spring Vanguard (same construction as that crappy Caldera spa) in NH for 3 years with no problems before I moved.

Thanks for not making me tear that fake video apart.

[bradleyabell]

We wet tested about 8 tubs and narrowed it down to the Bullfrog X8 and the Caldera Vanto. We are more than likely going with the X8 due to its larger size and how comfortable it is. 

[d00nut]

Thanks for not making me tear that fake video apart.

I got your back Tman 

[bud16415]

Thanks all for the responses.
Bud, I love the dual breaker config, and it seems unique to caldera. Seems like it could be really useful.

Does the deep corner seat (with neck massage) in your geneva ever get used? I wet tested and felt it was uncomfortable. I'm 6', and the neck pillow was hitting against my upper back. I really want to like the Caldera, but that's probably the biggest issue with it for me.

That seat is my favorite seat in the tub. I’m also 6’ tall. When you sit upright the pillow doesn’t act as a neck rest. I don’t notice it too much even. When you slide forward on the seat and rest your neck there it is like a second recliner in the tub. The jets actually do a better job when you are not pressed up tight to them. more of a wave type massage. As to the neck jets we were disappointed and had high hopes for them. they don’t work like they say at least for us. I haven’t seen to many out of the water jets that worked. The wrist jets are great and love the location of them. the spinners in ours poped off with the cap early on and I didn’t fix them as the jets felt better to me wide open.

We had a couple over and she was real short and tiny and she didn’t care for that seat as it was too deep and the jets were blowing her out of it. Both corner seats I like and the recliner is her go to seat I hardly ever get to try it. The other seats are so so and good for cooling off social use. The cool down seat is perfect for stepping into the tub.

[silversun]

I use dichlor and switch to Clorox when the stabilizer point is reached adding it by hand as needed and find it cheaper and more accurate.

Sounds pretty easy. Can you send a link to the method you use if it's detailed somewhere? I'd like to try the same thing. thanks!