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Quote from: Spayedkitty on July 08, 2017, 10:20:57 pmQuote from: TemptingDestiny on July 08, 2017, 08:00:20 pmYay, congrats on the hot tub shopping! Caldera's Utopia series is similar to Hot Spring's Limelight series. (The Pulse is same footpring in size, without a lounge or "Captain's Chair)Even though the Geneva looks similiar to the Envoy- they are still quite different in the design, jetting, filtration, controls...etc.I most definitely agree that soaking these two could make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck!So, do you think the Envoy is a better quality tub? The dealer at Hot Springs told me the Hot Springs is a Bentley and a Caldera is a Yugo. He said it's not comparing apples to apples. I like the cabinet on the Caldera much better than the Envoy. Is the filtration better on the Envoy?The Envoy (Highlife series) is still a level on it's own. There is no apples to apples when talking Geneva vs. Envoy other then similar shell shape. Although the cabinetry can be a huge factor in your landscape DESIGN, it does nothing for the functionality of the tub itself. Wet testing will be what matters, because you are looking for relief and comfort. The Envoy has the ability to do super easy watercare as well. Test soak. Then make a decision!
Quote from: TemptingDestiny on July 08, 2017, 08:00:20 pmYay, congrats on the hot tub shopping! Caldera's Utopia series is similar to Hot Spring's Limelight series. (The Pulse is same footpring in size, without a lounge or "Captain's Chair)Even though the Geneva looks similiar to the Envoy- they are still quite different in the design, jetting, filtration, controls...etc.I most definitely agree that soaking these two could make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck!So, do you think the Envoy is a better quality tub? The dealer at Hot Springs told me the Hot Springs is a Bentley and a Caldera is a Yugo. He said it's not comparing apples to apples. I like the cabinet on the Caldera much better than the Envoy. Is the filtration better on the Envoy?
Yay, congrats on the hot tub shopping! Caldera's Utopia series is similar to Hot Spring's Limelight series. (The Pulse is same footpring in size, without a lounge or "Captain's Chair)Even though the Geneva looks similiar to the Envoy- they are still quite different in the design, jetting, filtration, controls...etc.I most definitely agree that soaking these two could make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck!
Quote from: Spayedkitty on July 08, 2017, 10:20:57 pmQuote from: TemptingDestiny on July 08, 2017, 08:00:20 pmYay, congrats on the hot tub shopping! Caldera's Utopia series is similar to Hot Spring's Limelight series. (The Pulse is same footpring in size, without a lounge or "Captain's Chair)Even though the Geneva looks similiar to the Envoy- they are still quite different in the design, jetting, filtration, controls...etc.I most definitely agree that soaking these two could make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck!So, do you think the Envoy is a better quality tub? The dealer at Hot Springs told me the Hot Springs is a Bentley and a Caldera is a Yugo. He said it's not comparing apples to apples. I like the cabinet on the Caldera much better than the Envoy. Is the filtration better on the Envoy?Dealers say stuff like this all the time. They get paid to sell their brand not the competition. It's called salesmanship and should be left out of your decision making process on these two brands. I would say they are both about the same in quality, longevity and energy efficiency. Go with the brand that feels best on your butt.
Quote from: Spayedkitty on July 08, 2017, 10:20:57 pmQuote from: TemptingDestiny on July 08, 2017, 08:00:20 pmYay, congrats on the hot tub shopping! Caldera's Utopia series is similar to Hot Spring's Limelight series. (The Pulse is same footpring in size, without a lounge or "Captain's Chair)Even though the Geneva looks similiar to the Envoy- they are still quite different in the design, jetting, filtration, controls...etc.I most definitely agree that soaking these two could make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck!So, do you think the Envoy is a better quality tub? The dealer at Hot Springs told me the Hot Springs is a Bentley and a Caldera is a Yugo. He said it's not comparing apples to apples. I like the cabinet on the Caldera much better than the Envoy. Is the filtration better on the Envoy?That's actually a pretty cringe-worthy statement especially when considering the 2 brands mentioned...Watkins Manf. builds both tubs, they both retail for 11-13k, but yet one is a Yugo and one is a Bentley? So basically everyone buying a Caldera over 10k is a getting an unreliable overpriced junker? is that what he's saying? Makes no sense at all, pure rubbish
Quote from: Spayedkitty on July 08, 2017, 10:34:56 pmAlmost 30 years ago I remember my x mother n law who owned a spa company using bleach in the hot tub. I don't recall too much other than the bleach poured straight from the bottle. I was wondering if the Frog cartridges were more of a gimmick that would require more money. An Artesian dealer told me he quit ordering his floor models with the Frog system because customers were complaining of either too much chemical being released or not enough and that the cost is too expensive. I don't know yet the Geneva or the Envoy. I have to talk to both dealers again this week. I have really been leaning towards the Geneva. May I ask what you have yours placed on and do you live in a cold climate? The warranty says it must be on a concrete slab or a deck. One Caldera dealer told us gravel and another told us Slab or deck. We plan on doing a slab. I can't wait to get it. Thank you for the information. The fact that you would purchase the same model same brand again says a lot!My Geneva sits on top of a 30” high wood construction deck I built. The tub weighs about 6000 pounds full of water and then add in the weight of people etc and you need a sturdy deck. It is very cold where we live we get temps as low as –30f every winter and weeks at a time subzero. There were a couple things about the Geneva that I found appealed to me in this climate. First was the packed insulation material they call fiber-cor. It has amazingly good insulation factor and it can be easily removed and replaced if repairs are ever needed. In the case of a leak water travels straight down thru it and it is easier to pinpoint the leak. The second cold weather feature the Geneva has is the split GFCI breaker panel. I have 240v power off a 50a breaker in the house feeding the spa panel. Inside the panel there are 2 GFCI breakers a 20a and a 30a and then 7 wires running to the tub. The power to the heaters and to the pumps are two separate feeds. The tub is programmed so that if the heater goes in the winter the tub alerts you of that and goes into a survival mode. What it does is slowly circulate the hot water in the tub to keep pipes from freezing in the more exposed areas of the equipment area. In the winter with 103 104f water in the tub and zero ambient temps outside this gives the tub days of protection longer than without this feature to get a service man out to replace the heater. Most of the sanitizing made simple devices I think are made to sell you overpriced products. Just like K-cup coffee. I personally think the salt generators are the way to go. But the ones offered as a in tub package are more of the same. I have a friend with an after market salt chlorine generator and it really works nice. I have more than once thought about getting one. I don’t feel they would damage a tub but the warranty might see it different is the only reason I haven’t. Most of the products sold for spas have a inexpensive counterpart. Clorox type bleach is just one of them.
Almost 30 years ago I remember my x mother n law who owned a spa company using bleach in the hot tub. I don't recall too much other than the bleach poured straight from the bottle. I was wondering if the Frog cartridges were more of a gimmick that would require more money. An Artesian dealer told me he quit ordering his floor models with the Frog system because customers were complaining of either too much chemical being released or not enough and that the cost is too expensive. I don't know yet the Geneva or the Envoy. I have to talk to both dealers again this week. I have really been leaning towards the Geneva. May I ask what you have yours placed on and do you live in a cold climate? The warranty says it must be on a concrete slab or a deck. One Caldera dealer told us gravel and another told us Slab or deck. We plan on doing a slab. I can't wait to get it. Thank you for the information. The fact that you would purchase the same model same brand again says a lot!
Quote from: bud16415 on July 09, 2017, 10:35:50 amQuote from: Spayedkitty on July 08, 2017, 10:34:56 pmAlmost 30 years ago I remember my x mother n law who owned a spa company using bleach in the hot tub. I don't recall too much other than the bleach poured straight from the bottle. I was wondering if the Frog cartridges were more of a gimmick that would require more money. An Artesian dealer told me he quit ordering his floor models with the Frog system because customers were complaining of either too much chemical being released or not enough and that the cost is too expensive. I don't know yet the Geneva or the Envoy. I have to talk to both dealers again this week. I have really been leaning towards the Geneva. May I ask what you have yours placed on and do you live in a cold climate? The warranty says it must be on a concrete slab or a deck. One Caldera dealer told us gravel and another told us Slab or deck. We plan on doing a slab. I can't wait to get it. Thank you for the information. The fact that you would purchase the same model same brand again says a lot!My Geneva sits on top of a 30” high wood construction deck I built. The tub weighs about 6000 pounds full of water and then add in the weight of people etc and you need a sturdy deck. It is very cold where we live we get temps as low as –30f every winter and weeks at a time subzero. There were a couple things about the Geneva that I found appealed to me in this climate. First was the packed insulation material they call fiber-cor. It has amazingly good insulation factor and it can be easily removed and replaced if repairs are ever needed. In the case of a leak water travels straight down thru it and it is easier to pinpoint the leak. The second cold weather feature the Geneva has is the split GFCI breaker panel. I have 240v power off a 50a breaker in the house feeding the spa panel. Inside the panel there are 2 GFCI breakers a 20a and a 30a and then 7 wires running to the tub. The power to the heaters and to the pumps are two separate feeds. The tub is programmed so that if the heater goes in the winter the tub alerts you of that and goes into a survival mode. What it does is slowly circulate the hot water in the tub to keep pipes from freezing in the more exposed areas of the equipment area. In the winter with 103 104f water in the tub and zero ambient temps outside this gives the tub days of protection longer than without this feature to get a service man out to replace the heater. Most of the sanitizing made simple devices I think are made to sell you overpriced products. Just like K-cup coffee. I personally think the salt generators are the way to go. But the ones offered as a in tub package are more of the same. I have a friend with an after market salt chlorine generator and it really works nice. I have more than once thought about getting one. I don’t feel they would damage a tub but the warranty might see it different is the only reason I haven’t. Most of the products sold for spas have a inexpensive counterpart. Clorox type bleach is just one of them. The Fiber Core is a very attractive insulation for us. My husband cringes at the thought of that sprayed foam that gets hard. I think I may go visit the Hot Springs dealer tomorrow. This is such an expensive item, I want to make the right decision since it's not something we can just return if we change our mind. I've also read that the traditional full foam is out dated and it can actually cause leaks from vibration.