And the dealer is how important?

[aaahhh]

First of all I am not a dealer or am I in the HOT TUB industry. I am an Insurance Agent.

I am new to the world of Hot Tubs. And I realize how important my dealer is to me. I know there are people surfing the web for site's like this one that helped me purchase my 2004 Marquis Euphoria.

I think this could be an excellent topic for those new shoppers and bargan hunters to stop and think. Not so much what brand they are buying but whom they are buying from. I am also positive there will be some great advice given hear and also horror stories some of us may be willing to share.

In my experiance of shopping I went through all of the frustraightion as I have read over and over again.
The jerky salesman yada, yada, yada. How bad can I beat up the dealer for the lowest price. Yawn!

What I want to bring to the surface for the new buyer is.

Here is my experiance and this is how my dealer helps me. Here is why I will buy again from my dealer again because. This is why you buy from a reputal dealer and not the big wearhouse club stores ect, ect.

See one thing in life I am correct about. You can't buy life experiance. But it sure is helpful if someone experianced can send you down the right path.

I am not trying to beat up on the club stores, or mail order houses or, the big home improvement centers.

I just want people to stop and think about who they are laying down there hard earned cash with. Not the cool looking waterfall, or neat sterio, and Oh that pearl finish is so beautiful. Because when you have trouble none of that will mean anything.

If you have a bad dealer or no dealer you have problems. If you have a good dealer and a quality tub
life is good.

So let's have at it and allow someone elso to learn from our experiance. It is the best teacher is it not?

If I spelled a word or two wrong sorry but it is 1:17 a.m. and I am going to bed.

[Mendocino101]

Hello and Congratulations...enjoy your new spa....

[scout045]

I am fortunate enough to live in a town that has both a Sundance and Hotsprings dealer.  Both have excellent reputations, are family owned and operated and both have been in business for 20 plus years. I feel these are important  things to look for when you are making  this purchase.

[dazedandconfused]

Seriously, why is the dealer soooo important as some suggest?  (Dealers make us consumers believe this!  Wonder why?)  Any HS, SD, etc dealer will service you.  If the local dealer goes bust and you have quality tub, more then likely a new dealer of that same manuf will open up.  And that new dealer will service you.

I really do not think # of years in the business equates to any benefit to the consumer.  If the local HS dealer who has been in business for 100 years closes shop and you have a HS spa, I am sure another HS dealer will open up.  It is a quality spa and demand will entice someone to open shop.  If not, there are other HS dealers who would jump for your business!

I would like to hear a discussion about this.  For certain few, please dont bother discussing if you are going to be childish and sarcastic!

D/C

[ebirrane]

D/C,
 My experience is that dealers work together to keep the system going.  One Sundance dealer refused to sell to me because I was in another Sundance dealer's back yard.  Is that legal? Absolutely.  Is that frustrating? Absolutely!

 Part of their reasoning is that "we have to service spas that we sell".  I'm sure that was maybe 40% of the real reason.

 I put an e-mail in to HS and asked if *any* HS dealer can service a tub.  The warranty specifically states that you must contact *your* dealer, although they never define what "your" means.  It is implied, however, that your dealer is the dealer from which you purchased the tub.

 If HS wants you to use the purchasing dealer, then having a good dealer is important because you want to be able to evaluate their techs, how efficient their operation is, what parts they keep in stock, how long does it take them to turn around a service call, etc...

 Unrelated story, but my car is a BMW which I mention only to point out how expensive and frustrating repairs are on such a car.  For the 3.7 seconds that it was under warranty I could go to my choice of dealers for repair work.  

Of the 5 BMW dealers in my area 2 were, in my opinion, crooks. Fortunately from some other boards and word of mouth I was able to avoid one and leave the other.

Short version of the story:

I was informed, after taking my car in for an oil change, that I must have hit a bump or something and needed to replace a wheel.  Cost to replace a wheel? $1000.00.  joy. Oh, and every nanosecond I drove my car it was a danger.  Oh, yeah, and it isn't covered by the warranty.

I said "I'll put in an insurance claim" fax me an estimate. I'd rather pay a $200 deductable!  I never heard back from them.  I took it to another dealer, and suddenly, no wheel problems! Imagine that!

That crooked dealer was the dealer I bought my car from.  Best price on the car by far and I'm sure they were trying to make up for it on the back end.

Now, imagine if BMW said that you *needed* to stick with the purchasing dealer to have warranty service, and such dealers were spaced 50 miles apart.  Then the dealer sure as *heck* would have factored into *my* decision!

-Ed

[ebirrane]

 If the local HS dealer who has been in business for 100 years closes shop...

Ya know, I never got this.  One dealer proudly stated that he has been in his self-run business for 35 years.  He looked like he was in his 60's.  he said it proudly as in "I'll be around to service you for the next 35 years".  

No, he won't.  He looked like he was 30 minutes from retirement.  It was his business, and I wondered if anyone would pick up the salck when he retired.

I liken that ti picking a doctor.  I'm not going to pick a doctor who is in his late 50's, nor will I pick a doctor who is 22.

...

just random thoughts to bump up my post count.

-Ed

[dazedandconfused]

Thanks Ed!

Sorry to hear about your bimmer!

You should be able to buy from any HS, SD, etc dealer.  I think dealers say that just to create their monopolies.  I looked at the SD warranty and no where does it say that I must go to where I purchased for servicing.  It's a scam!

Some people on this forum say that their dealers give them free trip charges etc.  I learned last week from talking to a SD dealer out of state that dealers usually add 500+  to the price for future service!  I would rather pay as I need service knowing that I bought a NEW spa and shouldnt need service for a quite a while.

Anyway, I know I have spent alot of time searching but I am learning a little each day tricks/gimmicks that dealers play.

Enough said on my soap box.

Thanks Ed...

[newtotubbing]

This is my first post on the wonderful forum, having lurked for a while, I have purchased a spa!  Yeah!!!!

I must say that aaahhh has hit the nail right square on the head.  The dealer can be one of the most important pieces to this crazy hot tub puzzle.  

I looked at a number of tubs in my area and quickly discounted a few of the dealers (and brands unfortunately) because I felt the dealer would never be able to do the job that I would expect of them.

I have purchased a 2004 HS Vista this week and I know that I paid more for my tub than most on this forum have paid.  Where I live in NY, we have a small number of spa dealers, and the ones that are around, most of them are pool and spa dealers and only one that is local is exclusive to spas, the HS/Caldera dealer.   I choose the HS spa because I liked it very much, know that Watkins will stand behind it, but the dealer is the key to happily owning it for the next 10+ years.  I could have driven an extra hour + to the next HS dealer to get the price down to the level that most pay here, but that dealer is involved in pools as well,  is too far for me to bring my water samples, too far for me to go and buy chemicals, too far to stop and in talk about my spa,  good luck getting his techs to come to me once pool opening season starts, etc.......  What I liked about my dealer is they own 3 stores, are exclusive to spas, have been in business for over 30 years and are family owned.

 Now Dazed seems to think that this doesn't matter.  I say he is wrong.  If a dealer goes out of business D&C thinks that a new dealer will just come in or an existing dealer will reach out and everything will be just fine.  What if the new dealer hires inexperienced repair techs, what if the new dealer has no clue on how to schedule and plan service calls and the routing that the techs should take to make them more efficient, what if the new dealer is clueless about the spas he is selling, has no clue how to diagnose over the phone, etc.....  Staying in business for an extended period of time speaks volumes about a dealer and his ability to keep his commitments to his customers for the long haul.  Who wants a fly by night dealer promising you that he will take care of you.  I know I don't.  How do you know that the other dealers will instantly come to your rescue if your dealer goes out of business?  The dealer that is over an hour from me, might not be so willing to start sending his techs down to me on emergency calls if he has his own anxious customers that are closer to him that need emergency service.  

Yes the dealer is important, and low-balling and squeezing every dollar from your dealer might not be in the best interest of all parties involved.  In my business, my best customers are the ones that understand that I have to make a profit if I am going to be there to service them in the future.  You get what you pay for!

.02¢ from the newbie!  

Jonathan

[dazedandconfused]

Jonathan,

I am assuming that the new dealer would be competent.  Its survival of the fitest.  If he goes out of business, fine another will open and do business.  

As someone else posted, you can take your water sample, buy chemicals, etc at ANY dealer regardless if its SD, HS, etc.  Not to pick on you or any specific for that matter, but it both sickens and angers me when I hear dealers trying to brainwash people by saying YOU mUST COME to me!  Gag!  This is the 21st century!  Hello!

To address your technician quality question - Spa technicians are a dime a dozen.  Really!  Anyone who can obtain training from the manufacturer or technical school can fix spas.  It's not rocket science.

Again, I am not picking on you.  IN general I wish the general spa buying public would smarten and possibly end the silly games/tactics dealers play.

D/C

[Lori]

Congratulations to both of you who have purchased!

May you always have hot, bubbly water!!!

Enjoy Spatopia with the rest of us!!!

[spaguyohio]

Customers dont understand how expensive it is to sell spas. Spa X costs dealer 4500. Now he has to transport it, thats another couple of hundred bucks. Cover - figure 150-200, steps - 60-100. So lets say its at 4910. Dont forget his overhead (rent, electricity, heat, insurance, workmens comp, security alarms, you name it. All of that figures in.

Now, how many dealers would be in business if they sold the spa to folks at 10% markup?  NONE!  Ive tried to help a friend buy a spa for over a year, but he refuses to pay anymore than 10% over invoice. Not one dealer has accepted his offer. Now, he could go and buy a cheap spa from the warehouse clubs etc but he wants name brand products at below bargain basement pricing.

If you dont think spa X is worth the 7-8k a dealer is asking, then make them an offer. Whats the worse they tell you? no ? Either find a happy medium that the two can agree on, or find a cheaper tub. That simple.

[okspacpl]

Customers dont understand alarms, you name it. All of that figures in.

Now, how many dealers would be in business if they sold the spa to folks at 10% markup?  NONE!  Ive tried to help a friend buy a spa for over a year, but he refuses to pay anymore than 10% over invoice. Not one dealer has accepted his offer.

Well said!

I think the dealer has a very important role in your purchase as with our case the Top brand dealers are less than desirable and unfortunately that has elimnated them from our consideration.  

I look at the whole haggling over price issue as pretty mundane and pointless IMO.  I really couldn't care less about the price I paid when I am soaking in my tub!!

I for one would rather get what I paid for in customer service and quality brand and spend the money NOW upfront where I know the cost then get nit picked to death later because of shady maintenance or inferior workmanship!  

I am not in sales so please don't  get the wrong idea.  But if I was selling my car say for 45,000 and it was flawless and well taken care of and a good price and someone came along and said.  I REFUSE to pay 45k I'll give you 39K and not a penny more at that point with that attitude I would wish them well even if I was prepared to sell it for 35K!  It is an insult to me and the time and effort I put into the product for you to downgrade it IMO and wouldn't be appreciated by the new owner like it was by me.  That to me says it all; if you want quality spend the money if you want junk spend a little money and spend the rest of your life paying for it in the END!!!

[scout045]

 D/C--The general spa buying public has one thing in common...WE bought spas!!! Who's sitting in their hot tubs at night with relaxing music, maybe a bottle of wine and whos spending time obsessing. Nows who's smart?

[ebirrane]

My original mail and hot spring reply is attached at the end of this message.

Sounds like *only* the selling dealer is *required* to service the spa and others can choose to service if they want to.  

So even if I had a personality problem with my selling dealer watkins would "force" me to go there for repair unless another HS dealer took me as a charity case (i.e. said "we'll do it but charge you reasonable travel time", which they can do, even for warranty work).

Given that Sundance won't even sell into another Sundance's territory I take it this attitude is pretty widespread in the industry.

-Ed

---

Dear Mr. Birrane,

Thank you for writing to Watkins with your spa concerns.

I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your Hot Spring dealer.

The selling dealer is responsible and contracted to provide service on the spas that they sell.  If another authorized Hot Spring dealer chooses to service the spa we have no problem with that.  They would just turn in a claim to Watkins as they would for the spas that they sell.

If a dealer closes shop or is terminated by Watkins, the next closest dealer would be expected to service the spa if necessary.

As far as long lead times or personality conflicts go, that would be for you and your dealer to work out.  Each dealer has their own service department/provider.  They are all privately owned and operated (not a
franchise) so we cannot dictate their store policies to them.

Best regards,
Cheri Smith, Customer Service Representative

---

[edited personal info out]

Description of problem or inquiry:
            I have a hypothetical warranty question.

While I am *very* happy with my HS dealer, if I were to require warranty work to be done on my HS tub could *any* HS dealer service this tub or does it have to be the specific dealer that I purchased from?

Things that might make me look to another dealer would be:

1) Original dealer closes shop
2) Too long to schedule an appointment
3) previous bad experience with techs

Again, very happy with my dealer, this is a hypothetical, but one that I would very much like answered.

-Ed

[poolboy34]

As we can see from Watkins' response......Other hot spring dealers are NOT obligated to service spas that didn't sell, they CAN service spas that they didn't sell if they choose to.  Here's a senario (I Know it's a stretch):

D & C BUYS his cameo, from a dealer 4 hrs away.  2 months into ownership of his spa, egads!!!!!!!!!!!! he needs a service call.  He calls the LOCAL sundance dealer, he promptly tells him, we'd love to service your spa....BUT.............we as a business feel that OUR customers who CHOSE to buy from us come FIRST.    What a concept........a dealer taking care of THEIR customers!!!!!!!  So D & C has to wait.....three days pass, and still no service tech has arrived.  So D & C gets a little angry b/c now he can't use his cameo.  So he calls the LOCAL sundance dealer AGAIN, this time he's not so courteous and DEMANDS that they service his tub.  Well the local dealer decides that since D & C CHOSE NOT to buy from them, and ultimately wasted his/her salespeoples time, that they will NOT do business with D & C.  So D & C calls the next closest dealer and so on and so forth............

I know it's hypothetical...............but it does happen.  We've sold spas to customers out of our territory and even out of state due to the fiars and shows we do.  We Service EVERY spa that will sell, no matter where that spa owner lives.  NOW, if someone chooses to buy our brand of spa from another dealer outsideof our territory, WE DO NOT service their spas.  Why???  Because those customers who chose to buy their spa from us COME FIRST, and WILL ALWAYS come first.  Now d & C has a good point in that customers can buy their spa care products and have their water tested at any dealer, no matter what brand they sell.  believe me, I know, b/c we get disatisfied customers from our competitors ALL the time.  And they all say the same thing..................we should have bought our spa from you guys.  

We also sell pools as well.  BUT our spa technician only works on spas, we have seperate service techs for our pools.  And BTW, spa techs are not a dime a dozen.  years of experience and knowing how to deal with customers such as D & C is a priceless comodity in a spa tech, and those that can are not easy to find.  Yes techs can be trained.........but not everyone is able to deal with the public, especially when the public is spitting nails at you b/c they've had a bad day and now their spa doesn't work.

Ok my rant is done.

Jason,
Store manager for a D-1, Caldera and Hawkeye dealer