Great Lakes Hot Tub

[Tay]

I have a Great Lakes Hot Tub with the Balboa Value 3 system.  A few years ago, after a "power failure", the tub would not come on.  Checked the breaker, and it was ok, it hadn't kicked off.  After looking it over for awhile, I decided to "disconnect the control panel" in the Balboa Panel.  It was similar to a telephone line plug, only bigger.  As I disconnected this line, I heard a slight "click" noise.  I then just connected it "back into the board", and the hot tub almost immediately started working.  For the next few years, when the power would fail, the hot tub would NOT come back on, automatically, and I would go through this same process, and the hot tub would ALWAYS start up.  About a week ago, after using the hot tub, we discovered we had a leak.  I flipped the breaker to turn the power off,,,,,,found the leak,,,and hopefully have it fixed.  I filled the tub,,,,turned the breaker back on,,,and disconnected the control panel.  When I did this,,,,I heard the usual "one click" sound,,,,,,and then plugged it back in.  This time nothing happened, it didn't start up, and I had no indications of anything in the control panel.  SO,,,,I thought I'll try it again.  This time I didn't hear the "click",,,,,,,and while the control panel was disconnected, I got a "Buzzing" noise (like a relay vibration) and you can feel the vibration on everything in the balboa panel.  I thought I would be able to isolate the vibration,,,,,,but I can't seem to tell, for sure, what is vibrating.  When you plug the control panel line back in,,,,the Buzzing stops,,,,,but the hot tub still does not come on.  Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[Tay]

OK,,,,trying to make this simple.  Hot tub won't run.  Nothing shows on the top side control panel (completely blank).  Can't see any lights anywhere on the tub.  Pump doesn't run.  Not sure if it has power to the heater yet,,,,,,but doubt it.  Now, when I disconnect the control panel wire from the plug in the Balboa Main Control Box,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I get a very loud buzzing sound.  If I plug that top side control panel wire back into the circuit board, the buzzing sound stops.  Has this ever happened to anyone,,,,,,,?  Any ideas?  Thanks

[Tman122]

I have a Great Lakes Hot Tub with the Balboa Value 3 system.  A few years ago, after a "power failure", the tub would not come on.  Checked the breaker, and it was ok, it hadn't kicked off.  After looking it over for awhile, I decided to "disconnect the control panel" in the Balboa Panel.  It was similar to a telephone line plug, only bigger.  As I disconnected this line, I heard a slight "click" noise.  I then just connected it "back into the board", and the hot tub almost immediately started working.  For the next few years, when the power would fail, the hot tub would NOT come back on, automatically, and I would go through this same process, and the hot tub would ALWAYS start up.  About a week ago, after using the hot tub, we discovered we had a leak.  I flipped the breaker to turn the power off,,,,,,found the leak,,,and hopefully have it fixed.  I filled the tub,,,,turned the breaker back on,,,and disconnected the control panel.  When I did this,,,,I heard the usual "one click" sound,,,,,,and then plugged it back in.  This time nothing happened, it didn't start up, and I had no indications of anything in the control panel.  SO,,,,I thought I'll try it again.  This time I didn't hear the "click",,,,,,,and while the control panel was disconnected, I got a "Buzzing" noise (like a relay vibration) and you can feel the vibration on everything in the balboa panel.  I thought I would be able to isolate the vibration,,,,,,but I can't seem to tell, for sure, what is vibrating.  When you plug the control panel line back in,,,,the Buzzing stops,,,,,but the hot tub still does not come on.  Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Your top side control may be malfunctioning. Turn off the power for 5 minutes with the top side control connected.

[Tay]

Thanks for the reply!  I agree with you Tman, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".  I have done that, turn off, wait, turn power back on,,,,,,,,,no difference.  The tub doesn't make a sound.  The only difference I can find is when I disconnect the top control panel from the circuit board,,,,,,BUZZING,,,,,,,,,connect it back in,,,,,,,,BUZZING GONE, and nothing else seems to change.  The ONLY thing I've been able to find on the net, to check the top control panel, is to compare it to one you know is working,,,,,,,,if it works, you know yours is bad.  Just thinking there should be a CHEAPER way of doing that.  Going to put a hair dryer under that control panel later today,,,to see if that does anything,,,,I'll let you know.  Is there any way I could "cut that line going to the circuit board" and check for voltage there,,,,and then reconnect the line?  Its got me buffaloed. Thanks again!

[Tman122]

Thanks for the reply!  I agree with you Tman, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".  I have done that, turn off, wait, turn power back on,,,,,,,,,no difference.  The tub doesn't make a sound.  The only difference I can find is when I disconnect the top control panel from the circuit board,,,,,,BUZZING,,,,,,,,,connect it back in,,,,,,,,BUZZING GONE, and nothing else seems to change.  The ONLY thing I've been able to find on the net, to check the top control panel, is to compare it to one you know is working,,,,,,,,if it works, you know yours is bad.  Just thinking there should be a CHEAPER way of doing that.  Going to put a hair dryer under that control panel later today,,,to see if that does anything,,,,I'll let you know.  Is there any way I could "cut that line going to the circuit board" and check for voltage there,,,,and then reconnect the line?  Its got me buffaloed. Thanks again!

Most techs carry several different top side controllers to verify bad controllers. Does it say anything on the control panel?
 Anyway to get your hands on one?

Verify power coming in to the control box with a meter. Make sure all connections are tight. After that disconnect one component at a time and turn it back on after you disconnect one. Take those out as the source of the problem.

[Tay]

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I got it running,,,,but that's about all I can say!  What exactly was keeping it from coming on,,,I can't say.  I went thru the main control box, and pulled off (one at a time) all the wires with "push on" connections, cleaned them a little, and put them back.  After doing that, I turned the power back on, and nothing.  Then I removed the line from the top side control box and re-inserted it, heard the one tiny click (like I had done in the past), and the Spa started.  During the start up,,,,,it makes a terrible racket,,,,almost like a washing machine.  You can hear the the pump running,,,,,,,,,then a loud noise for about 2 seconds (like a grinding sound),,,,,,,then quiets for about 4 or 5 seconds,,,,,,,then the 2 second loud noise,,,,,,,and this continues on for about 20 minutes or so,,,,,,,then the loud noise stops, and you can hear the pump running normally.  It has a 2 speed motor,,,,,,but we're only getting one speed, I think.  After the spa has cycled, and the water is still, when you push on the top side control,,,,,you only get one speed.  Push it once, and the motor is supposed to kick on low, push it again, and it's supposed to go on high.  I think we might have just the high speed, but not positive.  Also, it had "preset" cycle of 30 minutes,,,,,,,,,,but now it doesn't seem to.  If you got in, it would run for 30 minutes, then the high speed would shut down, and it would go into some sort of standby mode.  Oh, and now the light works, and the temperature lights up, with the only thing not working is the button for the two speeds,,,,,Do you think the top side control is ok now?  Now it stays in high speed longer,,,,,,,and the temperature seems to keep going up, the longer it is on.  It was running fine until I shut it down to fix the leak which was in a back corner.  The only thing I did was "jack up" the back side of the spa about a foot off the deck, so I could get into the leak.  After lowering back on the deck, I expected it to run, since it HAD BEEN running fine, and I hadn't done anything else to it.  Any ideas now?  Thanks for any help!

[Tman122]

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I got it running,,,,but that's about all I can say!  What exactly was keeping it from coming on,,,I can't say.  I went thru the main control box, and pulled off (one at a time) all the wires with "push on" connections, cleaned them a little, and put them back.  After doing that, I turned the power back on, and nothing.  Then I removed the line from the top side control box and re-inserted it, heard the one tiny click (like I had done in the past), and the Spa started.  During the start up,,,,,it makes a terrible racket,,,,almost like a washing machine.  You can hear the the pump running,,,,,,,,,then a loud noise for about 2 seconds (like a grinding sound),,,,,,,then quiets for about 4 or 5 seconds,,,,,,,then the 2 second loud noise,,,,,,,and this continues on for about 20 minutes or so,,,,,,,then the loud noise stops, and you can hear the pump running normally.  It has a 2 speed motor,,,,,,but we're only getting one speed, I think.  After the spa has cycled, and the water is still, when you push on the top side control,,,,,you only get one speed.  Push it once, and the motor is supposed to kick on low, push it again, and it's supposed to go on high.  I think we might have just the high speed, but not positive.  Also, it had "preset" cycle of 30 minutes,,,,,,,,,,but now it doesn't seem to.  If you got in, it would run for 30 minutes, then the high speed would shut down, and it would go into some sort of standby mode.  Oh, and now the light works, and the temperature lights up, with the only thing not working is the button for the two speeds,,,,,Do you think the top side control is ok now?  Now it stays in high speed longer,,,,,,,and the temperature seems to keep going up, the longer it is on.  It was running fine until I shut it down to fix the leak which was in a back corner.  The only thing I did was "jack up" the back side of the spa about a foot off the deck, so I could get into the leak.  After lowering back on the deck, I expected it to run, since it HAD BEEN running fine, and I hadn't done anything else to it.  Any ideas now?  Thanks for any help!

Are the main electrical connections going into the control box tight? Now it almost seems like a control box problem. Does it have an air blower? If so shut down disconnect it and turn the tub back on.

[Tay]

I'll have to check the tightness of the connections (you mean the 220 volt line going in?)  Yes, it does have an air blower, but it's been disconnected for several years,,,,,,it was throwing the breaker.  I disconnected it, pulled it from the hot tub, dried it out good, hooked up a line to 110V, and it ran like a beauty for as long as you wanted.  Put it back in the tub, hooked it back up, and again, it threw the breaker.  Disconnected it from the main control panel,,,,and left it that way.  Haven't tried it since, still disconnected.  Thanks for the tip,,,,I'll check it out.

[Tay]

Well,,,,think I fixed it, and broke it.  First time I'd checked connections in 14 years,,,,,,,and all three connections were loose.  Tightened them all almost one turn BUT now, it won't start up at all.  First time I tried, got a "very short" noise, then nothing.  The power and topside lights were still on showing temp, spa light would come on and off BUT when I push the button for the "Jets", all I get is a "click".  I can keep pushing the button,,,,and it keeps "clicking",,,,,buts that's all.  What do you say now?

[Tman122]

Well,,,,think I fixed it, and broke it.  First time I'd checked connections in 14 years,,,,,,,and all three connections were loose.  Tightened them all almost one turn BUT now, it won't start up at all.  First time I tried, got a "very short" noise, then nothing.  The power and topside lights were still on showing temp, spa light would come on and off BUT when I push the button for the "Jets", all I get is a "click".  I can keep pushing the button,,,,and it keeps "clicking",,,,,buts that's all.  What do you say now?

What shape is the rest of the tub in? I ask because this will help you determine how much you want to put into it.

Do you have a meter and know how to use it? Check voltage going in to the control box first (Balboa Value 3). Report back. The easy answer is replace the control. But I'm wondering if your GFCI is working properly? Were there any error codes on the top side before during or after? I hope you understand this is difficult without the tub in front of you.

[Tay]

Overall, I'd say the tub is still in pretty good shape.  We're still using the original cover too, even though it's been outside all that time.  And yes, I've thought about replacing the main control box, even though I was hoping I wouldn't have too.  The motor too, is the original, even though during the first ten years, the tub was on 24/7.  It has just been the last few years that we have drained it for about four months during during the year.  I also looked at the prices of a new main board , and also of the Balboa Main Panel.  I see that there is one company, at least, that makes Main Panels that will replace the Balboa and is less expensive.  I was wondering if they are reliable and actually replace everything, as they advertise.  My board is a #52569.

Now, to get back to matters at hand, the two hot wires, when measured to the white ground wire, both measure 127 volts ac,  when I go across the two hot wires, they measure 253 volts ac, so I would say that would be fine, going into the box.  When I push the Yellow test button on the GFCI, it kicks the breaker off.  The only error message that ever came up for me was earlier in this process of working on the tub, the OH came up one time.  I know the water wasn't over heated because the temperature wasn't even up to 100 yet.  And yes, if you have helped many people out, which I'm sure you have, I know that you have been "tearing your hair out" more than once.  Thanks again,,,,,,,,

[Tman122]

Overall, I'd say the tub is still in pretty good shape.  We're still using the original cover too, even though it's been outside all that time.  And yes, I've thought about replacing the main control box, even though I was hoping I wouldn't have too.  The motor too, is the original, even though during the first ten years, the tub was on 24/7.  It has just been the last few years that we have drained it for about four months during during the year.  I also looked at the prices of a new main board , and also of the Balboa Main Panel.  I see that there is one company, at least, that makes Main Panels that will replace the Balboa and is less expensive.  I was wondering if they are reliable and actually replace everything, as they advertise.  My board is a #52569.

Now, to get back to matters at hand, the two hot wires, when measured to the white ground wire, both measure 127 volts ac,  when I go across the two hot wires, they measure 253 volts ac, so I would say that would be fine, going into the box.  When I push the Yellow test button on the GFCI, it kicks the breaker off.  The only error message that ever came up for me was earlier in this process of working on the tub, the OH came up one time.  I know the water wasn't over heated because the temperature wasn't even up to 100 yet.  And yes, if you have helped many people out, which I'm sure you have, I know that you have been "tearing your hair out" more than once.  Thanks again,,,,,,,,

Ah ha!!!! You may have a pump failing. But you could have other issues combined. Leaving them empty is just as bad or worse than running them. Any small leaks between the pump and the pump motor? Did it get louder? Is it a one pump system? Filters on low speed?

OH does not necessarily mean the water is to hot. The sensor is in the line just past the heating element and senses temp coming from the heater tube. If the low speed on the pump is failing it could cause an over heat in the heater tube and trip the sensor. That's how it's supposed to work.

Having a ton of parts gives the tech an advantage. You can swap out parts until the problem is solved. I still have 4-5 pumps in my garage and a couple good controls and topsides along with heating elements, likely 30-40 jets and flex tube and.......you get the idea.

[Tay]

Ah Ha!  Yes, the pump starting to fail is a possibility,,,,that is why I mentioned we had it running and used it 24/7 in the first 10 years.  I'm sure the motor was running a lot more than some other tubs.  I wanted your response to that.  But, the reason we drained it for 4 months out of the year for the last 4 years, was because we didn't want it to "freeze up" if we had an "area power failure", with the tub shutting down during the winter, and not AUTOMATICALLY starting up when the power was restored, when we weren't home, as it was designed to do.  As I said earlier,,,,lately, when we had a power failure, I had to go to the tub and disconnect the top side control, then re-connect it, before the tub would restart.

We had NO leaks at all in the system until we started the tub up this last time.  We filled it, then started it up, and it was running normally.  After it heated up, we got in and used it for about 30 minutes.  Ran great!  No abnormal sounds what so ever!  When we got out, we discovered we had a leak.  I shut it down and turned the beaker off.  WHEN WE SHUT THE TUB DOWN TO LOOK FOR THE LEAK, WE HAD NO INDICATION OF ANY OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE TUB, OTHER THAN THE LEAK.

After looking in the front part of the tub, where the motor and main control panel is located, I couldn't see where the water was coming from.  We had to take almost all of the "side panels" off the tub before I could see that the water was dripping from the pvc flex pipe at the back right corner of the tub.  So, I jacked up the back side of the tub about 12" so I could see better, and also had to dig the insulation out to find the exact spot where the leak was.  Found it, fixed the leak, lowered the tub back to the deck.

OK, we were home free now!  Filled the tub, turned breaker on, and nothing happened.  After trying different things, the tub FINALLY kicked on again, AND THAT IS WHEN WE STARTED GETTING THE NOISES.  At one point, can't remember exactly when, that OH error came up.  The temperature hadn't been showing it being too warm when it happened, BUT, I shut the tub down for a while.  That was the ONLY time it was on,,,,ever!  Later, I started it up again and got the buzzing sound (like a stuck relay).  Then, I disconnected all the wires and put then put them back.  Then when I started it up, I got the intermittent  grinding sound (or like a washing machine).  It IS at the time that the low speed should be on, and after a time, 30-45 minutes, the loud noise would stop, and the tub would be running like it was on high speed,,,,,,,,

Then you told me to check to make sure the wires coming into the control box were secure, which they weren't (but the tub had power, and the loud noise).  I tightened the 3 wire up,,,,,,,,,and now the tub won't come on at all.  Yes, I'm sure having parts to swap in and out would make it easier to diagnose the problem,,,,,but I don't have the parts.  I'm not a dealer, nor a tech, I'm just a tub owner.  Thanks again,,,,,and what's next?

[Tman122]

You have got good value from that tub. They are a value brand that usually last for 8-12 years. You done good. Unless you want to start throwing parts at it (start with pump) I would consider a new one. Your symptoms do say pump. But they also say control.

Can you listen closely and put your hand on the pump during start up attempt? See if it's vibrating or trying to spin but can't.

[Tay]

Well, like I said, after tightening the 220 cable coming into the box,,,,it won't start up.  Just makes a small "click" noise when I push the jet button, and does nothing.  From the very first, I suspected a pump going bad, and have had my hand on that pump numerous times when trying to get it working.  Not even once, have I felt vibration or humming coming from the pump itself.  The ONLY place I did feel (and see) vibration,,,,,and this has been numerous times, was on the main panel box (that includes the aluminum case itself, as well as the the wires and main circuit board).  Right now, it's doing nothing.
Are you sure there isn't something else I can try?