Comparisons are overwhelming

[Bigbender]

During the last week I've visited several local dealers and spent numerous hours on the internet trying to educate myself on as many hot tub brands, features, and differences as I could. I want to thank everybody for your help because this forum has been very helpful in my search. I have to admit something though...with so many different tubs and features available to the buyer, the comparisons are overwhelming. Our hot tub purchase has become one of the toughest decisions we've made in quite a while.

I'd love to just go out to my local dealer, point my finger to the hot tub with the most bells and whistles and say "that's the one I want" but because of other financial obligations created by Hurricane Ivan, my wife wants to set a monetary spending limit of $5,000 for our new Christmas present. Actually, this is more than we should spend right now, but she's been wanting a hot tub for years and I'm not making her wait any longer. The problem is - her figure really creates a short list of what I consider to be "quality theraputic" 4-5 person tubs.

She had the day off today so I altered my schedule and we spent the day traveling to more distant dealers. We looked at Sundance, Artesian, Coleman, Sonoma, Hot Springs, Tiger River, PDC, L.A. and Great Lakes. We couldn't fit Caldera into our schedule because they were off the beaten path. After the first stop, my wife began to realize that $6,000 (or more) was what we were going to need to spend to get what we were after and by the end of the day, she was very frustrated.

Sundance and Hot Springs are out of our price range and we didn't like the common jet style in the Artesians. I wet tested a Coleman C471, a Tiger River Caspian, the PDC Aruba and a Sonoma 910 Symphony. Out of these tubs, I would choose the Coleman because none of the others massaged the upper part of my neck unless I buried my nose in the water. The Coleman has the deluxe therapy package and I could stay put in the seats better than any of the other three. The PDC has the edge on foot massage and turbulance due to its air pump. The designs of these tubs are so close that I can't see any major differences.

The Coleman 471 was offered to us for $6360 out the door with an ozonator, cover, cover lift, steps and installation. The dealer claimed it was a $7600 tub, but  he needs to make room for 2005 models.

The Sonoma 910 is $6,000 with the same options.

The Tiger River Caspian is more than we'll pay and the PDC needs a reduction of one pump and 19 jets (29 total) to compare with the Coleman price.

My other dilemma is that I've been offered dealer cost on any Thermo Spa that I choose. A person I do business with is a "part-time" dealer. He wants to help me financially and at the same time make a sale before the end of the year. Because he doesn't have a showroom or parts inventory, I'm concerned about customer support after the purchase.

What would you do....?? The dealers in my local are are all covered now except for Caldera and I don't expect miracles there. Do I need to look at something else ??

[HotTubMan]

First off, dont mix friends, business and thermo spas.

Do a search on this site re:ThermoSpa, any site for that matter besides their own.

I am partial to the Coleman, as I am a Coleman dealer. $6300 is a great price, even with nothing thrown in. Right now my remaining '04 C471Deluxes are being offered for $7995 Canadian with EZLift, Stainless and Step. You do the math.

As for 2005 models. I can think of at least 5 manufacturers planning price increases between 5-8%. The most common explaination: high price of crude oil. Many spa components (plastics, vinyl, acrylic etc) are derived from oil. Buy now and save, otherwise you may end up paying $6K for a $5K tub next year.

My 2.4 cents

HTM

[poolboy34]

You might also want to do a dealer serach for Marquis and D-1.  Marquis's Everyday Hot Tub Line would fit your price range.  You migth also want to take a gander at D-1's @Home Hot Tub Line.  They also fit into your rpice range, and are high on features and quality, a great value IMHO.  It;s also possible that you might be able to get a D-1 Aurora HP (premium line) in your price range, as well as a Californian.  I'm not real familiar with all of the tubs that caldera offers, as we only carry 4 models of there tubs. It';s quite possibl;e that you would find a tub in their line that fits not only your needs but also your budget.

Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & caldera Dealer

[Mendocino101]

The Coleman spa seems to have a fair number of Happy owners....As Jason mentioned if you have a Marquis dealer around and can get them to work with you the Quest is a wonderful spa.....I am a genuine fan of that Model.....I would stay away from the Great Lakes it is a fine spa when you are spending around 3000.00...but for more dollars there are better choices...

[stuart]

I agree with Mendo all the way!

[aaahhh]

HotTubMan, gave you very good advice with doing business with friends. Service is super important after you pay them. I am glad you are shopping major brands. You may get a great price at the big box home improvement stores. But that's it.

When you walk out the door the next phone call will be to a real spa dealer for HELP! I have seen it first hand.

Personaly I shopped around just like you. Started off knowing nothing and hit the internet, read, read, and read some more. Talked to dealers, wet tested and was more confused as time went on.

I  purchased a Marquis Euphoria because I felt the warrenty is second to none. (READ THE WARRENTY AND COMPAIR APPLES TO APPLES.) The dealer treated us like we should be treated. No pressure no slick talk.

But what really sold me was the conversation we had about service. I had already desided I was going to buy a Marquis but what put the pen to paper was the Brand, warrenty, dealer, and service.

I have owned it since May of this year and everything they told me is 100% on the money so far.

Another opinion I have is fine a great dealer with in a reasonable driving distance to your home. When you need help 2 hours away is way to far. Try to stay with in a 1/2 hour drive if you can. You will be glad when you have a service problem or need your water professionally tested. Ask if they will test your water for no charge every time.

Best of luck and happy tubbing. Just my two cent's worth.

[Bigbender]

You might also want to do a dealer serach for Marquis and D-1.  Marquis's Everyday Hot Tub Line would fit your price range.  You migth also want to take a gander at D-1's @Home Hot Tub Line.  

I forgot to mention that I was at a D-1 dealer. My sister owns a '97 model and they're pleasedwith it. The dealer is within 20 miles of my home but the store is pretty crude. My first thought was: These people won't be around long... They only had five dry models in their cramped showroom and when I mentioned that I may want to wet test the Aurora, his reply wasn't very promising. I basically wrote them off when I left the building.

Marquis is 2 hours away but Caldera is within an hour drive. I'll make a phone call to them before I run.

My wife usually has lower back pains from lifting patients around and I think just about any jet pattern will help her. She's short and the Coleman had a higher therapy seat in the corner for women. I have neck issues due to a motorcycle accident years ago and since I've tested the Coleman, I realize that not every tub is going to have jets that hit me at the base of the skull. The head-rests are even shaped to keep the neck jet water from shooting up and out of the tub

I know it sounds like I've already made up my mind, but I won't commit for a few more days. I'm testing the L.A. on saturday because they have adjustable neck jets that may work out ?

[stuart]

It just kills me when you have a dealer that gets a great line of spas, has someone send in a referal and then doesn't do everything they can to make it a positive shopping experience for the customer.

The Rep for that D1 dealer should see the things you have and help them correct it or replace them.

[poolboy34]

Stuart,
I second that notion!

[Bigbender]

I made a call to the Caldera dealer and they no longer carry hot tubs. They referred me to a dealer we visited yesterday and they didn't have them either.

The Marquis dealer (2 hours away) said they had a Reward for $6 grand before tax, with ozonator, lift, and steps. I don't see any headrest on these. Are they comfortable without them ?

I'm still working on getting my price worked out with the PDC dealer. We're looking at a spa he needs to order so I called the PDC factory that's located 1 1/2 hours from here but he won't sell one directly. Because of this and the holidays, I'll need to wait three weeks for delivery. The factory rep said that Coleman spas were "cheap" and he didn't doubt that his price was higher.

Does anyone here have an opinion on PDC tub quality ? I like the local dealer, they look like they're a good quality tub and my dealer prefers their design over his Tiger River line.

[rick]

Coleman must have revamped their neck jets.  It was the one thing I dislike about mine.  The neck jets are much weaker than all the other jets in the therapy seats.  
Can you concur with this HotTubMan or SpaHappy?  
Is their a mod that can be installed on my 480 to fix these weak jets?  
Heck I just keep em shut off as they provide virtually no therapy at all.  

Also Bigbender, always take the trash talk of a dealer's competitors with a grain of salt.   It sounds like you have told him you are very close to getting a Coleman and his reply is the oldest trick in the book.  
If you talk to this PDC guy again, ask him to specifically state what makes the Coleman line cheap, and also have him compare his products parts and design to prove it.  

[HotTubMan]

Rick, only thing you do to increase flow to the neck jets is reduce flow to other jets on the same pump.

[Chas]

You said HotSpring is priced out of your range - keep in mind that while it is possible to buy a cheap spa, it generally costs more to OWN a cheap spa.

[rick]

I disagree HotTubMan.  

For instance, lets take the big therapy seat on the 480.
The jets on this seat, including the neck jets, run on pump 2.   Now I can close all the jets on this seat except for the neck jets and I will still get the same pressure out of the neck jets.  

I can even take this a step further, and close all the jets in the other seats that are running off pump 2.  I will still get the same pressure out of these worthless neck jets.  

Does this lack of pressure  have something to do with these jets being located right at the water line?  

[spahappy]

Coleman must have revamped their neck jets.  It was the one thing I dislike about mine.  The neck jets are much weaker than all the other jets in the therapy seats.  
Can you concur with this HotTubMan or SpaHappy?  
Is their a mod that can be installed on my 480 to fix these weak jets?  
Heck I just keep em shut off as they provide virtually no therapy at all.  

Hey rick,

The neck jets have changed and are wonderful on the Coleman 471Deluxe spas. I'll ask my service tech if he can think of a replumbing fix for your neck jets. This guy is amazing..a bit odd, but he really knows his stuff. PM me your serial number as that will tell me when your tub was born and will tell us more about the plumbing in the neck jet area. Good to see your still hanging around.

Spahappy


Also Bigbender, always take the trash talk of a dealer's competitors with a grain of salt.   It sounds like you have told him you are very close to getting a Coleman and his reply is the oldest trick in the book.  
If you talk to this PDC guy again, ask him to specifically state what makes the Coleman line cheap, and also have him compare his products parts and design to prove it.  

Great advise. Stay away from dealers who trash other brands in order to sell their own. A dealer should be able to sell spas on the merits and quality that the spa line they have has to offer you.

As far as the price you were quoted I think that's a great price. We have just started our year end closeouts ( ordered our 2005's today ) We're right about even with that price for a 471Deluxe with ozone, cover, chemical package, and in town delivery.

Coleman makes a great spa and has very good dealer support. I've been selling them for quite a few years. They have been perfecting the technology such as thermal lock insulation, jet placement for ultimate therapy benifits, seating comfort, and the addition of the galvalume steel structure with the solid one piece ABS pan bottom. The contols are solid state M-7 circutry which did away with pressure switches that could  stick and fail. The pumps went from 48 frame to 56 frame which is a more industrial quality cooler running pump. The pumps in the 471  Deluxe both have two speeds and that gives you more therapy options. The filtration system is completly programable and uses a skimmer basket that will catch debree such as grass, twigs, leaves, bandaids, hair scruchies, olives, straws, and most everything else. This saves wear and tear on your primary filter and eliminates the chore or having to dig all that stuff out of the filter pleats. The warranty is 5years parts, plumbing, electrical, equipment, and labor. No pro-rating and jets are covered for the full five years under the plumbing warranty.

This is a great tub, it fits you and your wife very well, you like the therapy, it's backed by a great warranty and a solid company. The price is lower than it will be on the 2005 models, and did you notice how quiet the spa is. That's a side benifit of the thermal lock sealed cabinet.

I'm sorry I got so windy I've just pitched two tubs back to back and I'm in high gear.

I know the price is a bit more than you barginned for. Did you check out the Coleman 461 Deluxe? It's a bit less money and is rated for four people.

We all know how overwehlming this part of the journey can be. There are many great spa's and dealers out there. When you make your decision and you and your wife are sitting in hot water looking up at the stars, you'll wonder how you ever lived without a spa..

Good luck and keep us posted!


Spahappy