Caldera Or HotSpring + More buying questions

[aruffell]

Hi all,

I've been looking into the possibility of having a hot tub for the past few weeks and have wet tested lots of cheaper models and some more expensive and it really came down to 2 models from rival yet same company brands.

The Hot Spring Envoy and Caldera Geneva.

They both had great power and had some amazing features that rivalled each other.

We (me and my mrs) loved the motomassage on the Envoy, but felt the leg jets in the Geneva were a welcomed bonus.

We also loved the wireless control in the Envoy and wondered why Caldera (also part of Watkins/MASCO) hadn't implemented anything similar.

The question is, which one would you go for?
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The other vital question comes down to water softness. I know that the Envoy has the ACE water system and I already have a water softener fitted to my main water supply. Upon checking with a tester, of which states for ACE it should be between 25-75 and their website stating 50ppm, mine was somewhere around 10-15. Would I need to top up with hard water or do something else to balance things out or would it be the softer the better?

On a similar note - How would the Caldera (no ACE system) be with my water supply? I wouldn't want to destroy any of the components due to my water.

Thanks,

Andy

[wmccall]

Welcome to the forum!  I've seen both brands, but not owned either.  It truely sounds like a no-lose situation, congrats on your work so far, you're in a good position to choose wisely.   Are you a little more comfortable with either dealer?   4 years after my last purchase I am still feeling satisfaction with my dealer.

[bud16415]

We own the Geneva for a couple years now and are quite happy with it. Living in the cold great lakes area I was impressed with the fibercor insulation and also the dual GFCI setup in the event of a winter heater failure. The frog system we tried with bromine first and switched over to daily maintenance with dichlor switching to liquid chlorine once the stabilizer is where I want it. I find it very easy to do it costs a lot less and our water stays perfect. When we go away for a week or more I stick in an @ease canister. That would be your other choice if you didn’t want to do the daily dose method.

I love the idea of a salt tub and salt generation and have a friend that has an aftermarket salt generator and his water is great. I have toyed with the idea of switching my Geneva over to the saltron mini system. The only draw back to the ace system for me is the cost up front and knowing it has a lifespan and then the cost of replacing consumable parts down the road. With these aftermarket units the part that goes the anode is 100 bucks and 5 minutes to change. After all the problems I had with bromine I was ready to switch to salt or get rid of the tub, but once I got on to the dichlor and liquid method it was a snap. I dose the tub when we get out toss in 1 tablespoon of granules and hit clean go in the house dry off and change and close the tub. The next night it is really low and like getting into heated tap water. Couple times a month shock the same way you would have to with the frog.

If you have wet tested them if you have any questions on how we use the tub or the diverters please ask. The wrist jets are great as are the legs and feet. The out of the water jets for the neck are over rated and don’t work like we have hoped. Those big jets on the floor are amazing and you will learn how to move around and get them where you need them. The dealer wasn’t too good at explaining them and I’m sure everyone finds a different use for them. They are great on calves and feet as well.

The second control panel is the one we use the most and it is great having it inside the tub. Lights and waterfall are fun but we mostly put them on for guests. 99% of the time the lights are on blue.

Sorry I can’t tell you much about the Envoy I have never heard anything but good reports on it as well.
You won’t go wrong with each of them. 

On edit.

We have no desire for wireless or music and all that. If we didn’t have the inside control panel then maybe a wireless would get used a bit more. 

[TemptingDestiny]

Very similar tubs, for sure. There are still some key differences between the brands, however. Filtration changes quite significantly. The Envoy comes fitted with the Tri-X filters- 5 of them to be exact.
With your water softening system- it makes it easier to balance the Hardness in the water. Hot Spring manufactures a product called Vanishing Act, which would help remove any excess calcium you may have.(It really is easier to add, then take away!) With yours being on a lower level- you would need to add some Calcium Increaser. The Ace System functions at a better rate with the lower Calcium- (it can cause a build up around the cell itself, which can hinder it's abilities as you use it) and the target number is approx the 50ppm mark.

The Caldera would probably require the Calcium levels to be raised as well, no matter what system you have. Probably higher then the Ace System requires.

Both tubs have leg jetting in the Lounge. With the twist of a diverter you are able to customize the pressure for your liking on the Envoy. Looks very similar to the controls the Geneva offers.

These are probably the two hardest tubs to compare, in my eyes. Very similar seating- but sometimes the details can change your outlook. Finding out what's most important to you- filtration, watercare, (wireless controls?) and the dealer, of course!

[bud16415]

I didn’t compare filtration and not sure what 5 filters buys you over one large one. About once a month I pull the filter and use a jet adapter on the hose I have for the hot tub. That hose is plumbed to hot and cold selection and I clean the filter with the hottest water I have coming from the WH. Hot water works 100 times better than cold and in the winter, it is much easier to do outside with hot water. Cleaning is a 5-minute job. 

[TemptingDestiny]

Hot Spring removes the intakes on the Highlife tubs and replaces them with filters. More filters, even cleaner water. (100% no-bypass filtration) The Tri-X filters are a ceramic style filter that are dishwasher safe. They have more square footage filtration per filter and last longer then a traditional paper filter.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Hot Spring removes the intakes on the Highlife tubs and replaces them with filters. More filters, even cleaner water. (100% no-bypass filtration) The Tri-X filters are a ceramic style filter that are dishwasher safe. They have more square footage filtration per filter and last longer then a traditional paper filter.

the Tri-X are built well and do last but they also have their downfalls...they clog much quicker, the 'spacing' between the filter pleats allows for debris to fall back into the water when they are removed and a new set will cost $300+

Also I know "dishwasher safe" is part of the marketing but who's going to stick filters with body hair attached to them into a dishwasher? not me

[TemptingDestiny]

 
Had to laugh at that a little. I mean, I put cutting boards that had raw chicken on it in my dishwasher. I still eat off of the plates after the clean cycle. Dishwashers sanitize!
Majority of my clients that have the Tri-X use the dishwasher. If it's that big of a deal, run a clean cycle on the dishwasher.

Yes, they are expensive. They do last longer (and filter more) though, so long term, it has potential savings.

 The only downside is, I have one of those dumb dishwashers that barely fit a big pot or pan because of all the prongs. A 5 set won't fit in mine.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Had to laugh at that a little. I mean, I put cutting boards that had raw chicken on it in my dishwasher. I still eat off of the plates after the clean cycle. Dishwashers sanitize!
Majority of my clients that have the Tri-X use the dishwasher. If it's that big of a deal, run a clean cycle on the dishwasher.

Yes, they are expensive. They do last longer (and filter more) though, so long term, it has potential savings.

 The only downside is, I have one of those dumb dishwashers that barely fit a big pot or pan because of all the prongs. A 5 set won't fit in mine.

nice flip..someone's been to Top Gun...you did forget to use "Value" though :-)

anyways back on topic...OP you didn't mention cost between the 2 models? are these both from the same dealer? also Re: wireless controller, Caldera (guessing here) probably won't get it, Watkins like to keep some features on their "Highlife Collection" exclusive though that could change in the future I suppose.

[Hottubguy]

Hi all,

I've been looking into the possibility of having a hot tub for the past few weeks and have wet tested lots of cheaper models and some more expensive and it really came down to 2 models from rival yet same company brands.

The Hot Spring Envoy and Caldera Geneva.

They both had great power and had some amazing features that rivalled each other.

We (me and my mrs) loved the motomassage on the Envoy, but felt the leg jets in the Geneva were a welcomed bonus.

We also loved the wireless control in the Envoy and wondered why Caldera (also part of Watkins/MASCO) hadn't implemented anything similar.

The question is, which one would you go for?
----------------------------------------
The other vital question comes down to water softness. I know that the Envoy has the ACE water system and I already have a water softener fitted to my main water supply. Upon checking with a tester, of which states for ACE it should be between 25-75 and their website stating 50ppm, mine was somewhere around 10-15. Would I need to top up with hard water or do something else to balance things out or would it be the softer the better?

On a similar note - How would the Caldera (no ACE system) be with my water supply? I wouldn't want to destroy any of the components due to my water.

Thanks,

Andy

Can't go wrong with either. Both great tubs. Which one felt better on the wet test?  Were they priced competitively?  As far as water chemistry either the ace system or spa frog system won't be all you need to do. You will still need to add other chemicals. Chemical system would rank low on my list of what to buy. Dealer rep, comfort and price comps would rank much higher