Hot tub sanitation methods

[Cora5]

Hi,

I am considering a hot tub purchase and I have narrowed down my decision on two brands. Hot spring Envoy NXT and Caldera Geneva. I recently wet tested the Envoy and plan to wet test the Geneva next week. There is a lot that I like about the Envoy but after looking at the Geneva I feel like this tub offers more for the money.  I like the ACE saltwater cleaning system. I want a hot tub without having to expose myself to a lot of chemicals.

I am realistic in that I know that sanitation is essential and the use of chemicals at a minimum is my goal. Could you please educate me on my options for sanitizing the Caldera spa? How does the Frog system work? I see that it can be used in combination with the Monarch ozone system.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my questions.

[mpkelley20]

I would start here on basics of sanitizing your hot tub.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/9670-How-do-I-use-Chlorine-in-my-Spa-(or-pool)


There are many methods to use.  Just about every single method will require you to use some kind of chlorine/bromie based sanitizer.  I don't think any of those natural methods will eliminate the need for some kind of weekly shock.  They may help reduce the amount of chlorine used but you'll still need it.

I'm sure others can correct me if I am off base with the above.  But there are only a few approved sanitizers available for hot tub and pool use.  If you stray from those, you risk having issues.  Even if you can't see them.

The chlorine method is ridiculously easy to follow.  I use Dichlor granuals and sometimes bleach.  Once a day.  That's it.

I have an in line feeder on my marquis like the caldera has.  I tried the bromine at first but had issues maintaining proper levels.  I did buy the @ease chlorine cartridge and that worked much better at keeping sanitizer at constant levels.  It wrecked my PH and alkalinity though so I found I was having to add baking soda to bring everything back up.  But for periods of time when I can't get out to the tub every day (i.e. travelling), the in line feeder is a good options.

I'm sure you know this but a saltwater system is still chlorine.  Just a different method of delivering the chlorine.  An expensive one at that. 

Good luck on your purchase.

[bud16415]

I have the Caldera Geneva and love it. I didn’t care much for the built in frog system as I started with bromine and my numbers were hard to control as mentioned above. Like mentioned I switched to a daily program of Dichlor and supplement liquid bleach once I get to the levels I like with the Dichlor as stabilizer. I have tried the @ease cartridges and they look like they would be the simplest solution but are a bit pricey. @ease is what I switch to if I’m going away for a week or more. The rest of the time I just add one tablespoon of Dichlor after we get out each night.

A salt converter is the system I would like the best. My friend added a converter and switched his tub to salt and it is wonderful. I might do the same thing. The one he bought is a saltron mini. Works and does the same thing the Ace does but a lot cheaper to keep running IMO. The smoothness of the salt water is second to none.

All the methods your exposure to harmful chemicals is very minimal far worse is what you get if you don’t sanitize enough. The biggest things we do is always shower before and moisturize after.

Both tubs are great tubs. If you have any specific questions about the Geneva please ask.   

[TemptingDestiny]

A salt converter is the system I would like the best. My friend added a converter and switched his tub to salt and it is wonderful. I might do the same thing. The one he bought is a saltron mini. Works and does the same thing the Ace does but a lot cheaper to keep running IMO. The smoothness of the salt water is second to none.
 

The only thing that the Saltron Mini and the Ace Salt System have in common is that they use regular sodium chloride to produce a more natural chlorine. That's it. The Saltron Mini is a stand alone product that gets mounted to the outside of the tub, where the Ace Salt System gets hardwired into the brain of the tub. The Saltron Mini ONLY produces chlorine, which uses more salt then the Ace System does- which means there is a possibility to you may still need ozone, or an MPS Shock for heavier bather load.
Ace produces a bundle of cleaners on a rotating basis to help keep your tub clean and clear.
Obviously there are some rare usage levels that can fluctuate usage on both types.
I really do enjoy the salt water aspect, however. It really does make it easy as long as you start it up correctly and really take time to learn what your needs are.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I looked up the Saltron Mini and I would think you'd prefer a hot tub that has a circ pump associated with it for best results if you indeed purchase that aftermarket.  But I really think the most important thing that you haven't asked is:  Will installing this unit post-sale void warranty(s)?  That should be the first question you ask.

Caldera (and Artesian and Marquis) has @ease offered in-line on their units and its new and possibly confusing.  I was confused at first and I do this for a living, so your confusion is completely justified.  Here is a blog I wrote about @ease:  http://www.prestigepoolsandspas.com/blog/ease-a-really-cool-spa-sanitization-system

I'm not honking for @ease, I just think its pretty cool.  Regardless- I'd put the sanitization aspect way low on the list if you're still deciding between the Hot Springs unit and the Caldera unit.  Not to say your concerns aren't valid, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse:  Pick out the brand, the unit and go from there. 


Hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.
 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Your choices are: Bromine (granular or tablet) Chlorine Granules, Ozone/Silver Ion/Non Chlorine Shock, or Biguanide based system....those are the methods that have been around forever.  We offer all of those but as of late we are selling our Blu Fusion salt system at almost a 65% rate, our system produces Bromine, is very stable, has a solid 3 year warranty, and allows for a much softer/cleaner soaking experience, it also allows the customer to adjust the system easily which in turns allows for more "steady" bromine production therefore avoiding those nasty chemical "spikes"....We sell, install & orientate and support it which is very important like the poster above mentioned.

[mpkelley20]

Caldera (and Artesian and Marquis) has @ease offered in-line on their units and its new and possibly confusing.  I was confused at first and I do this for a living, so your confusion is completely justified.  Here is a blog I wrote about @ease:  http://www.prestigepoolsandspas.com/blog/ease-a-really-cool-spa-sanitization-system

I'm not honking for @ease, I just think its pretty cool. 

Hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

Have you had any issues with Ph and alkalinity dropping significantly with the @ease?  After a week of using mine, my levels were way down to almost not registering.  Since returning to the dichlor method, my PH an AL have been stable.  It did make it easy to maintain chlorine levels for the couple of weeks where I couldn't get out there everyday but it did cause me some small headaches to get my other levels back in line. 

[bud16415]

I don’t think the device would void the warranty but putting salt in your tub might even if the salt level is less than that of a human tear. My tub was designed and sold to use bromine as @ease was not for sale then. When I figured out I didn’t care for bromine or the dispensing system and switched to Dichlor maybe I voided my warranty then as I was adding something different.

Fill me in what does the Ace system produce other than chlorine from the salt “bundle of cleaners”?

The question is what is in the tub that a mild salt solution would damage?

The saltron-mini has a selection knob that basically sets the hours per day it runs. My friend that has it has his set to 2 hours and it keeps his chlorine level right where it should be for 2 bathers. If he uses the tub hard he hits the cycle button and lets it run double that night. It is not tied to the brain of the tub and should be lifted out and put in the holder when using the tub. About the same thing you would do with a floating dispenser.

Changing salt to chlorine and killing something and then turning it back to salt is a simple science experiment.

For a first time buyer I understand the appeal of a system you don’t have to think about. But you end up thinking way more about it than you would think because it still needs shocked and PH balanced. The Dichlor or Dichlor and bleach method isn’t really that big of a jump as DIY and it keeps you engaged in the process. Going away for a week or two is the only real problem with that method I could see and @ease will fix that.

If I do switch to salt it won’t be for simplicity it will be because the water has a better feel in a salt tub.     

[The Wizard of Spas]

Caldera (and Artesian and Marquis) has @ease offered in-line on their units and its new and possibly confusing.  I was confused at first and I do this for a living, so your confusion is completely justified.  Here is a blog I wrote about @ease:  http://www.prestigepoolsandspas.com/blog/ease-a-really-cool-spa-sanitization-system

I'm not honking for @ease, I just think its pretty cool. 

Hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

Have you had any issues with Ph and alkalinity dropping significantly with the @ease?  After a week of using mine, my levels were way down to almost not registering.  Since returning to the dichlor method, my PH an AL have been stable.  It did make it easy to maintain chlorine levels for the couple of weeks where I couldn't get out there everyday but it did cause me some small headaches to get my other levels back in line.

I haven't had a real big issue with that relative to other sanitization methods.  The funny thing with @ease, for me as a salesperson, is that when we put it on a tub in my showroom that didn't have a cover (save for solar cover at night), the system performed "okay." 

When we had customers use it and kept their tub covered the feedback was all positive.  Wonder if that has happened with other salespeople who have done @ease in their showroom.

The biggy with @ease is pH and alk:  You need to keep them in-line (7.4-7.8, 80-120ppm, respectively) and I know that can be a turn-off, but pH imbalance leads to greater issues long term regardless and I prefer to get the cat out of the bag with water chemistry anyways.  But that is just one way to do it.  There are many ways to do water chemistry and I like them all (except biguianide, which voids our warranties).

The Saltron Mini preforms in the same fashion of a salt system for an in ground pool.  I like salt systems in general but I am leery of the first generation of any product, and I don't know if it would void a brand warranty or not.  But salt systems on in ground pools are amazing. 

[TemptingDestiny]

The Ace Salt System produces Active Oxygen at it's initial start point. Once the system recognizes the tub is clean, it then cycles through a process to produce chlorine, Ozone, Hydrogen Peroxide, and MPS. This is one of the reasons it is considered a System, and not just a Chlorine Generator like many of the after market set ups.

[Cora5]

I have the Caldera Geneva and love it. I didn’t care much for the built in frog system as I started with bromine and my numbers were hard to control as mentioned above. Like mentioned I switched to a daily program of Dichlor and supplement liquid bleach once I get to the levels I like with the Dichlor as stabilizer. I have tried the @ease cartridges and they look like they would be the simplest solution but are a bit pricey. @ease is what I switch to if I’m going away for a week or more. The rest of the time I just add one tablespoon of Dichlor after we get out each night.

A salt converter is the system I would like the best. My friend added a converter and switched his tub to salt and it is wonderful. I might do the same thing. The one he bought is a saltron mini. Works and does the same thing the Ace does but a lot cheaper to keep running IMO. The smoothness of the salt water is second to none.

All the methods your exposure to harmful chemicals is very minimal far worse is what you get if you don’t sanitize enough. The biggest things we do is always shower before and moisturize after.

Both tubs are great tubs. If you have any specific questions about the Geneva please ask.

Hi bud16415, what color scheme did you go with for your hot tub? I think I will go with the slate cabinet and midnight canyon shell. I went to a dealer today to look at the Geneva and I've decided I will get this instead of the Envoy NXT. I just wish that I could see this color on a hot tub before I purchase it. I know that I can look at this color combination online. However, I'd like to see it in person. I plan to also use the frog system and see how that works for me.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

The Ace Salt System produces Active Oxygen at it's initial start point. Once the system recognizes the tub is clean, it then cycles through a process to produce chlorine, Ozone, Hydrogen Peroxide, and MPS. This is one of the reasons it is considered a System, and not just a Chlorine Generator like many of the after market set ups.

  How does this thing create ozone, hydrogen peroxide and MPS (shock) ?

[TemptingDestiny]

The Diamond Electrode that is used in the Ace Salt System is what differentiates the System from the others. When this cell is energized, it reacts and breaks apart water molecules and combines them with the salt to create the cleaners. As I am not a scientific goddess, I am not aware of how the electrode when combined with the salt and water creates each individual cleaner with each molecule or however it is done. 

[bud16415]

I have the Caldera Geneva and love it. I didn’t care much for the built in frog system as I started with bromine and my numbers were hard to control as mentioned above. Like mentioned I switched to a daily program of Dichlor and supplement liquid bleach once I get to the levels I like with the Dichlor as stabilizer. I have tried the @ease cartridges and they look like they would be the simplest solution but are a bit pricey. @ease is what I switch to if I’m going away for a week or more. The rest of the time I just add one tablespoon of Dichlor after we get out each night.

A salt converter is the system I would like the best. My friend added a converter and switched his tub to salt and it is wonderful. I might do the same thing. The one he bought is a saltron mini. Works and does the same thing the Ace does but a lot cheaper to keep running IMO. The smoothness of the salt water is second to none.

All the methods your exposure to harmful chemicals is very minimal far worse is what you get if you don’t sanitize enough. The biggest things we do is always shower before and moisturize after.

Both tubs are great tubs. If you have any specific questions about the Geneva please ask.

Hi bud16415, what color scheme did you go with for your hot tub? I think I will go with the slate cabinet and midnight canyon shell. I went to a dealer today to look at the Geneva and I've decided I will get this instead of the Envoy NXT. I just wish that I could see this color on a hot tub before I purchase it. I know that I can look at this color combination online. However, I'd like to see it in person. I plan to also use the frog system and see how that works for me.

We have the previous model of the Geneva and the case finishes were the old rustic wood look and ours is a reddish brown that blends with our deck well. Inside I can never remember if it is the pearl white or the white. No texture and very slick feeling on bare skin and also very easy to wipe down with a microfiber cloth. I liked the white as during the day the water looks slight blue tint and just sparkles and with the LED lights at night the white reflects and the tub just glows with whatever color combination you want. We mainly have it on blue, I like the emerald green and sometimes the gold color. They are all fun and set a mood. I just like to look down in the tub and if there is a speck on the floor, little stone or something it shows right up against the white. I judge the water quality a lot by sight and with the white you notice as soon as it loses its sparkle. For us lately that’s in about 4 months.

You will like the frog system.  I would suggest starting with the @ease cartridges along with the minerals they like you to use. It is easier to switch from chlorine to bromine than the other way around. 

[bud16415]

The Diamond Electrode that is used in the Ace Salt System is what differentiates the System from the others. When this cell is energized, it reacts and breaks apart water molecules and combines them with the salt to create the cleaners. As I am not a scientific goddess, I am not aware of how the electrode when combined with the salt and water creates each individual cleaner with each molecule or however it is done.

I don’t claim to be an expert on the Ace system. But that is quite the trick taking NaCl and H2O and producing all that using diamonds for an electrode.

Here is what their site says.
http://hotspringsupply.com/index.php/water-care/salt-based/ace-saltwater-sanitation-system.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA0fnFBRC6g8rgmICvrw0SJADx1_zAjiEJov6MnjKFCEfMJEjNGQkddnQ8qkIl57x3Phs9ohoCcRjw_wcB

it says generates chlorine and other “cleaners”. But doesn’t elaborate on all this other stuff. Here is The rest of the story from their site.
http://www.hotspring.com/ACEworks

I get the feeling stuff gets a little overstated between the company advertisement and the dealers overselling the concept. Quite similar to the amazing mineral cartridges I’m supposed to use in my tub. To me something like the saltron-mini does the exact same thing as the Ace system. Only as a cheap add on unit. Like I said I only know one person that has one and his water reacts to the salt and chlorine generation exactly the same way the Ace system does. Maybe it has diamonds also I don’t know.