Hot tub sanitation methods

[Alicatt]

I had an Intex salt chlorine generator system for my above ground Intex pool, it ran for about 5 years but the unit got broken on a house move and now I have used regular chlorine tablets for the last 4 years.

The salt system was very easy to use and it kept track of the water balance letting you know if it went out of balance, the pool is used by our extended family, kids and grand kids and they all have commented that they want me to go back to the salt system as that felt better and was more enjoyable to swim in. The local stores stopped supplying salt based systems about the same time as my generator broke so was not able to replace it.

The one problem I did have was with the original circulation pump/filter was not powerful enough to push a good flow rate through the solar panels as well as the generator, if the solar panels were in line then the generator would give a low flow error and shut down, so I had to upgrade that too with a 1.5kW pump and sand filter and that allowed me to also put in another solar panel section without restricting the flow rate too much.

We have decided to retire the 18ft round Intex pool this year as we will be out the country a lot during the summer and for summer 2018 we are looking at putting in an inground pool of about 30ft x 15ft which is about as big as we can fit into the garden and still give plenty of walking room around it. Certainly for that we will go back to a salt system.

[TemptingDestiny]

Reading through the Ace Manuals. The wording has changed over the years, but previously stated those.
MPS shock apparently is only created when PH Decreaser is added to the water.
I doubt the mini is a diamond, considering it is patented.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

The Diamond Electrode that is used in the Ace Salt System is what differentiates the System from the others. When this cell is energized, it reacts and breaks apart water molecules and combines them with the salt to create the cleaners. As I am not a scientific goddess, I am not aware of how the electrode when combined with the salt and water creates each individual cleaner with each molecule or however it is done.

I don’t claim to be an expert on the Ace system. But that is quite the trick taking NaCl and H2O and producing all that using diamonds for an electrode.

Here is what their site says.
http://hotspringsupply.com/index.php/water-care/salt-based/ace-saltwater-sanitation-system.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA0fnFBRC6g8rgmICvrw0SJADx1_zAjiEJov6MnjKFCEfMJEjNGQkddnQ8qkIl57x3Phs9ohoCcRjw_wcB

it says generates chlorine and other “cleaners”. But doesn’t elaborate on all this other stuff. Here is The rest of the story from their site.
http://www.hotspring.com/ACEworks

I get the feeling stuff gets a little overstated between the company advertisement and the dealers overselling the concept. Quite similar to the amazing mineral cartridges I’m supposed to use in my tub. To me something like the saltron-mini does the exact same thing as the Ace system. Only as a cheap add on unit. Like I said I only know one person that has one and his water reacts to the salt and chlorine generation exactly the same way the Ace system does. Maybe it has diamonds also I don’t know.

  To me it looks like they are taking the word "oxygen" and calling it MPS and Hydrogen Peroxide which in essence it is I believe, but not the same thing as Hydrogen peroxide or MPS.   Ozone is a gas so I am not sure how it is creating that unless there is a spark and air in the same chamber as the diamond plate? 

[bud16415]

The biggest difference I see between the Ace and the aftermarket standalone chlorine generator is about 500 bucks initially and then a couple hundred more plus a service charge when it comes time to replace the anode. The standalone you can clean yourself by sticking it in a glass of vinegar a few times per year. Other than that they both take pool salt and convert it to chlorine and give your spa the soft feel of salt. 

[The Wizard of Spas]

It seems to be using the same standard process of real (read:  not sodium bromide systems) salt systems to generate a sanitizer:  Na is separated from Cl by positively charged and negatively charged plates, allowing the Cl to bond with the H, O, O of H2O to generate Hypochlorous Acid (the actual sanitizer in all forms of chlorine).  This seems to happen after the initial sanitization by their Diamond product, which seems to be a form of ozone generation, which would make sense:  The ozone breaks down the bacteria, then the salt system kicks on to establish a sanitizer level for later to keep the water clean when not in use and to establish a sanitizer level for the standard reasons. 

No first-hand personal experience with this product but I am sure it performs admirably.  I am also sure a Hot Springs expert can further explain the process but it seems to be relatively standard in the salt generating system community (again- not to knock the product).

The only questions I'd raise would have been touched on:  What is the lifespan of the product, what is the cost of the replacement of the product, and what is the benefit of the product and can those benefits be achieved in a more cost-effective manner? 

That is where the real truth lies.

[bud16415]

The other factor beyond cost is how saltwater feels and reacts with your skin. My opinion is it is much easier on you than water and Cl alone.

For the pros here a question. Is there any parts in a regular hot tub that a concentration of salt in the water would damage in the long term?   

[The Wizard of Spas]

The other factor beyond cost is how saltwater feels and reacts with your skin. My opinion is it is much easier on you than water and Cl alone.

For the pros here a question. Is there any parts in a regular hot tub that a concentration of salt in the water would damage in the long term?

And that is just the thing:  I haven't seen a detailed warranty on a true salt system for hot tubs.  Some "salt" systems are actually sodium bromide systems who, among other things, limit the corrosion of the metals that would likely happen from the more traditional salt systems.

On in ground pools not only does the generator build up with salt crystals over time naturally from the process of electrolysis, but in-pool steps and/or hand rails need to be pulled out every few weeks or so and their cups need to sprayed out with a hose to eliminate the corrosion build up or the cups will fail.

Knowing this, I wonder how it would affect things such as stainless jet covers, especially jets placed near the water line? 

Additionally, in the first 15 years or so of the manufacturing of salt systems the quality of the apparatuses themselves were nominal at best.  We've only seen real, genuine quality the last 5-10 years. I wonder how this plays into the salt systems for tubs?  Hot Springs is the first to fully push a built-in NaCl salt system so we are at the mercy of them to provide info on the quality, which isn't the best way to find objective info.  Thats why the language in the warranty will be the most telling thing.  That, and a few years from now if other brands have incorporated NaCl salt systems into their products or not...

[BullFrogSpasMN]

It seems to be using the same standard process of real (read:  not sodium bromide systems) salt systems to generate a sanitizer:  Na is separated from Cl by positively charged and negatively charged plates, allowing the Cl to bond with the H, O, O of H2O to generate Hypochlorous Acid (the actual sanitizer in all forms of chlorine).  This seems to happen after the initial sanitization by their Diamond product, which seems to be a form of ozone generation, which would make sense:  The ozone breaks down the bacteria, then the salt system kicks on to establish a sanitizer level for later to keep the water clean when not in use and to establish a sanitizer level for the standard reasons. 

No first-hand personal experience with this product but I am sure it performs admirably.  I am also sure a Hot Springs expert can further explain the process but it seems to be relatively standard in the salt generating system community (again- not to knock the product).

The only questions I'd raise would have been touched on:  What is the lifespan of the product, what is the cost of the replacement of the product, and what is the benefit of the product and can those benefits be achieved in a more cost-effective manner? 

That is where the real truth lies.

Cost = I've see prices range from $1,295 to $1,695 at the time of spa purchase, price comes down to the individual dealer
Warranty = 1 year
Lifespan = the cell has a rated lifespan in hours, it works out to approx. 17-19 months of life under normal circumstances
Cell Cost = It was $800-$1,000 depending on install/etc. when I was selling Hot Spring
Does it work? = Yes, if educated and setup properly it works well, it softens the water, doesn't leave a residue on the skin, give the customer a "push button" adjustment on their sanitizer level (chlorine in the case of the ACE system)
Does 'Diamond Technology' really mean anything in terms of how it operates or added benefits to the consumer = Not really in my experience (I sold ACE from 2009-2015) the system operates as other chlorine based salt water systems work.  I never personally noticed or experienced anything different due to any of their marketing hot points...diamond technology, creates multiple cleaners, etc.

[bud16415]

In comparison and I am not affiliated in any way with any products other than a home owner interested in maintain a healthy home spa within a reasonable budget. This is the breakdown on one product and I have seen several similar systems marketed but the saltron-mini to me seems to be the most straight forward of the cheap generators and built by a company that has been involved in this market for some time.

You can get the whole unit (saltron-mini II) for $172 on line. And the replacement cell costs $100. There could be an additional cost as you need a 120V GFCI outlet to plug the unit into. My spa disconnect 240V GFCI breaker has room inside to add one 120V GFCI breaker so I could easily tap into that to power one if I didn’t already have several 120V GFCI outlets around the deck. I would guess if you needed one added and didn’t have the skills to do it you would need to add $200 to cover that cost. 

 I only know one guy that has one and he went thru the gambit of sanitizer methods that many of us tried starting with Bromine. He has had the saltron-mini for 4 years now and I don’t believe he has changed the cell. He soaks it in vinegar once a month. His is an older unit and it didn’t have the reverse polarity they now talk about that is supposed to prevent build up on the anodes. His also didn’t habe the timer feature and he built his own timer to turn it on and off. The basic box and cell look the same as what is sold now. He uses 8 pounds of salt in his tub and it is a large tub. He said when he fills the tub he puts the pool salt in a plastic bowel and sets it on the seat and allows the salt to dissolve slowly in the water over a few hours then he powers the tub up and lets the jets mix it in. He warned me to stay away from any salt except pure pool salt he had tried the (Dead Sea) mineral salt and all the minerals did was mess with the cell. He does all the other normal maintenance I do except doesn’t add Cl. 

Cost wise I don’t see a huge savings over granular / liquid Cl. There is the advantage of it being self-dispensing if you go away. His water life is really long, but that could be his usage also. The biggest benefit I have seen is the texture and feel of the water. It seems much less irritating to me and I have very sensitive skin. I guess I could add salt to my tub without a generator and still add Cl for sanitizer. I never heard of anyone doing that.   

[Foxy]

Have looked at a lot of salt water systems and went with Arctic Spas new self automated Spa Boy Chlorine generated salt water system. I t is automated so that they have a seperate probe that monitors the chlorine level and turn on and off as needed.No more guess work.I t also monitors your ph levels in. your spa and notifies you on your topside controls when your ph is high. With their system you can also register your spa on their web based portal and be able to monitor and and control your spa from anywhere in the world that has internet. They also have a power management system that you can use especially if not using spa much and also with this feature you input how much you pay per kWh and it will let you know exactly how much your operating costs are for power.

[Sam]

The vast majority of spas I've seen over the years that are running salt systems have evident corrosion at the heater and or chrome jets.  Our customers that insist on salt systems end up replacing their heater within a couple of years.  In my opinion, the @ease system is the way to go.  We absolutely love it.

[Tman122]

never personally noticed or experienced anything different due to any of their marketing hot points...

BFSM, can I use this? 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

never personally noticed or experienced anything different due to any of their marketing hot points...

BFSM, can I use this? 

use it however you like buddy...when are you gonna come check out my new store? bring your checkbook, I know how you've been dying to buy a new Bullfrog with the exlusive JetPak technology 

[Tman122]

never personally noticed or experienced anything different due to any of their marketing hot points...

BFSM, can I use this? 

use it however you like buddy...when are you gonna come check out my new store? bring your checkbook, I know how you've been dying to buy a new Bullfrog with the exlusive JetPak technology 

Get any disposals or repos up north let me know. I'll go to Hinckley. Safest, cheapest guy around.