Hot tub life expectancy? Buying used vs new

[walterfredo]

Hello,

Like many who come here, shopping for our first hot tub and pretty overwhelmed. Which brand? New vs used? We initially looked at Sundance as our town has a dealer, and after reading a bit sounds like they make a great product and by all accounts the local dealer is fantastic as far as customer service goes. But also on a budget and thinking used is the way to go for us.

My main question is about hot tub life expectancy. Obviously, many many factors involved with that. I've been combing Craigslist pretty hard within a 3-4 hour radius. There's a 2009 cal spa right in my town, don't know exact model, seats 6 and is in excellent condition, I think it's a Cancun. Sounds like cal spa doesn't have a good reputation around here, and the closest dealer is an hour away and they have awful reviews.  Selling for $2K. Not far from us another seller has a 2013 Sundance Edison asking $4K (seems high for used?) and I've also located a 2005 Sundance cameo that looks immaculate' seller asking $1K. But it's 11.5 years old.

So how old is too old to buy used? And what has actually changed between say a 2005 and a 2017 Sundance cameo?  I'm so torn!

[Chk]

I hope you don't mind me piggybacking, but I have a similar question.   I'm at either a new Jetsetter 8k or 8 year old for 4k, both from a very good local dealer.  Look forward to all the great answers, and good luck. Waterfredo.

[Beck0101]

My two cents - if you're cost conscious go with a used tub and don't look back.  New tubs appear to be about the worst "toy" you can buy from a depreciation standpoint.  Even boats hold their value better than tubs and boats are terribly bad!

I see very nice looking tubs fewer than 10 years old selling for well below $2500 on CL all the time.  People move and "cant take it with them" pretty regularly it seems.  If you're willing to replace a pump, a board, pillows or a heater a great deal can be had out there.  Find a brand locally supported and go for it.

At the end of the day they are all outdoor bath tubs (unless, of course, you're using them to treat a medical condition).  How fancy they get depends on your tolerance for spending. 

My two cents only of course.

[walterfredo]

thanks Beck. I really think we will go used for the first go round.

The Cal Spa option seems to make the most sense for us. It's local, it's affordable, it's super clean and well maintained and the exact configuration we are looking for. But all this hate for Cal Spa on this site has me worried. And the closest Cal Spa dealer is an hour away with horrible reviews.

Anyone want to expand on the Cal Spa hate? Should we pay $2K more to get Sundance in similar condition, albeit a few years newer?

[Hottubguy]

Hello,

Like many who come here, shopping for our first hot tub and pretty overwhelmed. Which brand? New vs used? We initially looked at Sundance as our town has a dealer, and after reading a bit sounds like they make a great product and by all accounts the local dealer is fantastic as far as customer service goes. But also on a budget and thinking used is the way to go for us.

My main question is about hot tub life expectancy. Obviously, many many factors involved with that. I've been combing Craigslist pretty hard within a 3-4 hour radius. There's a 2009 cal spa right in my town, don't know exact model, seats 6 and is in excellent condition, I think it's a Cancun. Sounds like cal spa doesn't have a good reputation around here, and the closest dealer is an hour away and they have awful reviews.  Selling for $2K. Not far from us another seller has a 2013 Sundance Edison asking $4K (seems high for used?) and I've also located a 2005 Sundance cameo that looks immaculate' seller asking $1K. But it's 11.5 years old.

So how old is too old to buy used? And what has actually changed between say a 2005 and a 2017 Sundance cameo?  I'm so torn!

Interesting and very different options. The cal spa at 8 years old is probably near the end of its lifespan. It's a cheaper tub made with less expensive materials. Even at 2k that's not a good buy. The Edison at 4K is only a good buy if it bought through a dealer with a warranty. If it's private party you should be able to do better. Your best bet might be the Cameo. At 11 years old it probably has more life in it left then the cal spa assuming it was probably taken care of. Have you seen all three up and running?

[Tman122]

thanks Beck. I really think we will go used for the first go round.

The Cal Spa option seems to make the most sense for us. It's local, it's affordable, it's super clean and well maintained and the exact configuration we are looking for. But all this hate for Cal Spa on this site has me worried. And the closest Cal Spa dealer is an hour away with horrible reviews.

Anyone want to expand on the Cal Spa hate? Should we pay $2K more to get Sundance in similar condition, albeit a few years newer?

My take on Cal, as a repair guy who has done service on a bunch of them and a guy who has owned 3-4 used ones myself. If you can get one that is only a few years old there are still a few good years in it. If you find one more than 5 years old it better be real cheap and in good shape. The life expectancy of a mid range, value tub like Cal is 8-12 years depending on how it was cared for (this holds true for any brand) The higher end manufacturers regularly get 12-18 years or more from their product. Again depending on how it was cared for.

I owned a 9 year old Calspa that was an awesome soak. Got it for free. Sold it for 1500 bucks. after installing a $220 pump. Of course I delivered it and warranted it for 90 days. Almost 5 years later I disposed of it. The owner had no regrets. Neither did I.

Look at Cal as a Kia in the auto world. Great when they are new and a reasonable value. Buy 2 of them to get the same longevity as a Honda for about the same money.

Look inside of the Cal and then look inside of a Hot Springs, you will see the difference in construction and fit and finish.

4 YO Edison for 4 grand??? Seems OK if it runs good. Can they go any lower? Start at 2500

[walterfredo]

I offered $3K on the Edison. No dice yet.

Hottubguy, the only one I haven't seen running is the cameo, and it's a couple hours drive away which will make for higher transport costs. I would of course see it running before I moved on it.

I hear you guys on the cal spa concerns. What would some of you think is a reasonable Price for 2009 cal spa escape Cancun? I'd say it's in excellent condition for the year, owner says it was serviced weekly by the pool guy, and by the looks of it I believe them! Also they have stated that the heater was replaced about a year ago. Or is the age just a deal breaker?

Thoughts on a fair price for a 2013 (I think?) Sundance Edison? Also seemingly in excellent condition. With the bonus that we have a great local Sundance dealer.

I really appreciate all the input!

[Hottubprosne]

Buy the cal spa as long as it has no leaks and everything works. Cal spa as a company kinda sucks but the tubs are fine. Any tech worth a dime can fix cal spa they run balboa you can find parts online easy enough.  Are they as good as sundance or some of the other top brands no. We consistently work on cals that are 20 years old.  They need tlc just like the rest. btw we sell used tubs all brands as well as cal spa. Make sure a good local dealer will work on it you don't need to go to a cal spa dealer necessarily. jmho

[The Wizard of Spas]

I find all of this fascinating as there is no "BLUE BOOK" for hot tubs.  Furthermore, I reside in a market that doesn't really have a 'Used' marketplace, save for one guy who's rather minor in sales vs the 5-6 top dealers. 

To me- Used has always been looked at negatively as there isn't a whole lot of options for someone who can work on 'any' tub, and who can get brand-specific parts (we all know that a lot of parts are universal but there are just enough brand-specific parts to potentially cause a headache).

Furthermore, its tough to 'test drive' a used tub.  That is why I've always been pro-new tub vs used.  But that also suits my business interests.

I guess if you can find someone to work on your tub and you get it at a price that is comfortable to you, it can't be all bad, right?  And the others on this thread are no slouches so I have to concede that the used market has value, if you follow their astute advice and watch for the issues they raised.

I guess its cost analysis at this point:  You get what you pay for.  But if you're only paying a few grand and you get like 4-5 years out of it and don't really invest in it- save for operations cost- that is indeed a solid win for you.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Buy the cal spa as long as it has no leaks and everything works. Cal spa as a company kinda sucks but the tubs are fine. Any tech worth a dime can fix cal spa they run balboa you can find parts online easy enough.  Are they as good as sundance or some of the other top brands no. We consistently work on cals that are 20 years old.  They need tlc just like the rest. btw we sell used tubs all brands as well as cal spa. Make sure a good local dealer will work on it you don't need to go to a cal spa dealer necessarily. jmho

huh, interesting I can't seem to get them out of the backyard without them falling into 15 pieces even if they are 10-12 years old...I'd buy an older used Sundance 100 times out of 100 over a Cal, matter of fact where do you live? We just filled a 2008 Sundance Chelsea trade-in yesterday that will only require basic TLC (pillows, cover, diverter handles, etc) that I'll give you a great deal on :-)

[Tman122]

This is why budget type tubs aren't necessarily a bad deal if they are used. Once Cal dumped the duel ended pumps their parts were all generic and easy to find and fix. Were they built strong and long lasting no, but if they are priced accordingly. Life expectancy is almost always measured in cost of construction.

Lets say a year of use cost 600 bucks. Buy a tub that lasts for 10 years that's a 6000 dollar. Buy a tub that lasts for 20 years and it should cost? Well 12,000 with this math but likely less than that. If the Cal sells for 2000 bucks if you can get 4 years of life from it your in the ball park, right? As long as the maintenance is easy or close to equal between the 2. And the right tech can stretch this. I let my customers help me. I show up after 5 so they are home. I teach them how to learn, troubleshoot and fix their problems.

An advantage to purchasing used, assuming 3-4 years of life expectancy. You get to decide over a long period of time if a hot tub is right in your life? Then you can go big or bail.

[Calisoldier83]

I believe the more hands and travel on a serious piece of equipment takes a toll on the life expectancy. This was the main reason I opted out of a showroom model, it would've had to be packed, loaded, and delivered, an additional time. If a tub has been moved locations over and over again, and used, I can't imagine how much harm that would cause to internals, especially with an older model. At least this was my perspective.

If the dealer/company will warranty it for at least a year it might be okay, but I doubt they will.

[walterfredo]

Thanks folks.

I'm leaning toward a new find, a 2008 Sundance Optima that's been completely refurbed by a spa tech, new pillows, new cabinet, and they're providing a 90 day warranty. Asking price is $2900.

[Spatech_tuo]

 You could always counter a bit on the price though it sounds reasonable and the 90 warranty is important though maybe you ask for 120 days as a counter offer.

[Hottubprosne]

I would by the sundance for that price over the cal spa all day. Most cal spas after 2000 or so are not that bad. I have had plenty of older sundance fall apart when we move them. Once they started putting plastic down for ground contact it helped alot.