Foam Problem

[Hottubguy]

Hey guys and gals.  I have a customer with a Marquis Reward that is about 6-7 months old.  First 4-5 months everything was fine.  She drained and refilled on Christmas and has had a hell of a time with foam.  I purged the tub Mid January, balanced the chemicals.  PH is 7.6, alk is 80-90 calcium 200 and it's holding bromine.  The foam is heavy white foam that has no signs of brown or any other dicoloration to it.  I have put her on a natural enzyme weekly treatment but the foam gets worse.  I have replaced filters.  She uses the tub by herself every day for about a half hour.  Foam out takes the foam away for a day or two and then it comes back worse.  I have to be missing something.  Every chemical person I've talked says I'm treating it properly but for whatever reason I can't figure this out.  Anybody have any ideas?  I have hundreds of tubs out and have never had a problem like this

[Bonibelle]

I'm going to guess that she's using a product on her skin that is probably causing this! Since she's the only one using the tub. There are many after shower products now that leave your skin feeling great because they put a nice layer of lotion...just curious if she might use something like that. I shower before using the tub to prevent the lotions from contaminating my water.

[bud16415]

I agree with the above post 100% and have seen it quite a few times after we have one particular guest use our tub with us. Some people clean everything off with a shower some add things.

[Hottubguy]

Those were my guesses as well but she says she doesn't use any products besides shampoo

[The Wizard of Spas]

Then have her rinse her bathing suit out beforehand:  Sometimes residual detergent can be left in the bathing suit.  Rinse in warm water prior to entering the tub.

That is the only other thing I can think of, as you have touched on everything else.

[Water Boy]

Is the spa filtering properly? Maybe something is haywire there. Have you tried changing up the sanitizer? Maybe try some chlorine instead of bromine? Doubt any of that works, but curious if you have checked/tried that.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

2 words...Phosphate Remover

[Hottubguy]

Is the spa filtering properly? Maybe something is haywire there. Have you tried changing up the sanitizer? Maybe try some chlorine instead of bromine? Doubt any of that works, but curious if you have checked/tried that.

Switched it from bromine to chlorine on the last fill.

[Hottubguy]

2 words...Phosphate Remover

Should have mentioned I treated for phosphates. They were about 1500 ppm and they are down to under a 100

[Hottubguy]

@waterboy the filters seem to be filtering properly. Everything looks normal in that area

[MarKee]

Sounds really odd.  Is she mixing any chemicals together?  Sometimes shock or dichlor mixed with other things could cause the foam.  Ask her if her bathing suits have any sort of padding in them?  Some of those bathing suits contain padding that can soak up detergents like a sponge.  Some people also use way too much detergents and fabric softeners.   

If you can't figure it out, one product that really works for something like this is the Hot Tub Serum maintenance dose (gallon bottle size).  It's expensive but it lasts for quite some time.  You put in 3 cap fulls a week on a Reward size tub.  We barely sell it but every once in awhile we use it when a big family contaminates one of our floor models with a bunch of foamy bathing suits.  I was skeptical when a rep sold it to us, but it really works well.  Lance at Marquis will also vouch for it!  It can be found on Amazon searching "Hot Tub Serum Total Weekly Maintenance".

[MarKee]

Also a note on the Hot Tub Serum product I mentioned, it's made by the same company that makes Ahh-Some.

[Beck0101]

Perhaps worth mentioning....tell her to skip the bathing suit as well!

I had a heck of a time with foam when I switched to Clorox (lower cost) spa chlorine. Foam down helps to manage the foam but I'm not really saving any money as a result.

Good luck. 

[bud16415]

Swim suits I agree don’t really belong in a hot tub, but then again most people au natural is not an option.    I would suggest as mentioned above if swimwear is used it be purchased differently than what one would wear to the beach. Style is not important in a personal spa and all the frills and padding and such. I recommend the lightest and thinnest of swimsuits and very much the type a competition swimmer would wear. A thin spandex material will rinse out with a good hand twist and be dry in minutes and has much less chance of holding soap and such. Really washing isn’t required all the time a good rinse in hot water is all it should take.

Even from the therapeutic benefits of the jets in the tub are improved with nothing on and next to nothing is the next best thing.

We always quick shower before with soap and water. The soap has no oils and such in it. We then shower after with all the moisturizing product stuff. We never have any foam issues unless we have friends over. We tell them about oils and stuff and suit rinsing but who knows if they pay attention. So the next day if I see something I just treat it.   

[The Wizard of Spas]

Directly from the APSP, I took a snippet that focused on foaming...

"Spas need to maintain a sanitizer residual at times.  The range for a spa utilizing brominating sanitizers is from a minimum of 2.0 ppm to a maximum of 6.0 ppm total bromine. For chlorinating sanitizers the minimum is 2.0 ppm and the maximum is 4.0 ppm free available chlorine. If these levels are not maintained disease causing bacteria, especially Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Legionella pneumophila, will readily grow and may lead to outbreaks. Both of the sanitizers are also oxidizers.  As oxidizers they help break down organic contaminants from bathers, but in doing so the sanitizer residual can be exhausted quickly. When the sanitizer is depleted microorganisms can flourish. Localities that require automatic chemical feeders with feed back sensors to control chemical regulation aid in maintaining an acceptable residual. Keep in mind that a large influx of bathers can overwhelm the sanitizer even with automatic feeders.

With this information in mind let’s look at some common problems; foaming, pH bounce, clarity and odors.

Foam
Foaming is generally caused by two factors, detergents that have not been thoroughly rinsed from swim suits and cartridge cleaning as well as body oils from bathers. Under certain conditions body oils will be transformed into a soap-like product. Both contaminants result in lowering surface tension of water allowing bubble formation. When the bubbles combine in large amounts foam is the result.  Foam concentrates contaminants, including bacteria and disinfection by-products, and can deposit them directly onto the skin.  This is not a good thing.

Persistent foaming is a basis for draining. If foam develops while the spa is in operation and foam is persistent after the jets and blower are turned off the spa should be closed. Draining, cleaning and refilling are in order.  Sometimes a de-foaming chemical is added over the water surface to reduce or remove the foam. Doing this is only masks the underlying cause, it is not a cure."