What to buy?

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

After looking into Bullfrog's website, I am extremely impressed with the manufacturing process and designs! The MODEL A8L seems to be my best selection. Wet test coming soon...

They make a great tub! My advice would be make sure you try the: NeckMasseuse, Oscillator, Versa, Wellness, Pulsator and Deep Relief JetPaks....those are 6 of my favorite, doesn't mean they will be your favorites but it's a good starting point during a wet test...Good Luck!

[Tman122]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

After looking into Bullfrog's website, I am extremely impressed with the manufacturing process and designs! The MODEL A8L seems to be my best selection. Wet test coming soon...

They make a great tub! My advice would be make sure you try the: NeckMasseuse, Oscillator, Versa, Wellness, Pulsator and Deep Relief JetPaks....those are 6 of my favorite, doesn't mean they will be your favorites but it's a good starting point during a wet test...Good Luck!

And as exactly as important as trying all the seats and the different feels of any brands style of jetting, movable or not.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

After looking into Bullfrog's website, I am extremely impressed with the manufacturing process and designs! The MODEL A8L seems to be my best selection. Wet test coming soon...

They make a great tub! My advice would be make sure you try the: NeckMasseuse, Oscillator, Versa, Wellness, Pulsator and Deep Relief JetPaks....those are 6 of my favorite, doesn't mean they will be your favorites but it's a good starting point during a wet test...Good Luck!

And as exactly as important as trying all the seats and the different feels of any brands style of jetting, movable or not.

Absolutely, especially in a Bullfrog or any other Make/Model that has varying seat heights/varying jet variety within the spa, during a wet test I even offer people sit on the cool down seat if the spa has it, just to make sure it's "big enough" so they can sit there comfortably when it's in their backyard.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

[Tman122]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.

Every commercial and YouTube video about a product is designed to highlight the product as if it's the best on the market!
However, some brands stand above all the rest.
Using facts, side by side comparisons and some common sense should lead consumers on the right path.
 
Bullfrog in my opinion did a very good job using existing conventional comparisons vs the new ideas and why they claim to be better with facts by using videos, schematics, pictures and comparisons to prove the point! I applaud them for doing such a great job.
I'll give you a good comparison on videos, (not to bash the brand) but ThermoSpas has a nice video but nothing that convinced me like the Bullfrog. I'm sure other manufacturers use similar presentations to attract consumers into their brand, but again.... Nothing close to Bullfrog.
Other manufacturers will not dare touch most of the topics that Bullfrog has pointed out in the video.

Now, let's keep one thing clear.... I am not picking any sides yet as I have not made a final purchase, but here are some of the key features about Bullfrog that I picked out and thought were superior compared to other brands in the same class tub.

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) 
- Insulation is far superior to competitors
- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs
- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with)
- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub.
- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth....
- USA Made

With the all that said, I must wet test it to see jet performance, comfort and over all "real life" operation of the tub.
One thing is looking at a tub on paper and video, and the other is living it in real life....

[Hottubguy]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.

Every commercial and YouTube video about a product is designed to highlight the product as if it's the best on the market!
However, some brands stand above all the rest.
Using facts, side by side comparisons and some common sense should lead consumers on the right path.
 
Bullfrog in my opinion did a very good job using existing conventional comparisons vs the new ideas and why they claim to be better with facts by using videos, schematics, pictures and comparisons to prove the point! I applaud them for doing such a great job.
I'll give you a good comparison on videos, (not to bash the brand) but ThermoSpas has a nice video but nothing that convinced me like the Bullfrog. I'm sure other manufacturers use similar presentations to attract consumers into their brand, but again.... Nothing close to Bullfrog.
Other manufacturers will not dare touch most of the topics that Bullfrog has pointed out in the video.

Now, let's keep one thing clear.... I am not picking any sides yet as I have not made a final purchase, but here are some of the key features about Bullfrog that I picked out and thought were superior compared to other brands in the same class tub.

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) 
- Insulation is far superior to competitors
- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs
- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with)
- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub.
- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth....
- USA Made

With the all that said, I must wet test it to see jet performance, comfort and over all "real life" operation of the tub.
One thing is looking at a tub on paper and video, and the other is living it in real life....

There insulation is no different then others. Energy savings will be the same as a dozen other brands,  jet paks are a neat concept, shells are no stronger then others,  they aren't the only us made hot tub. Don't fall for all the marketing stuff. Wet test and let that be your determining factor

[OldSchoolSwap]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.

Every commercial and YouTube video about a product is designed to highlight the product as if it's the best on the market!
However, some brands stand above all the rest.
Using facts, side by side comparisons and some common sense should lead consumers on the right path.
 
Bullfrog in my opinion did a very good job using existing conventional comparisons vs the new ideas and why they claim to be better with facts by using videos, schematics, pictures and comparisons to prove the point! I applaud them for doing such a great job.
I'll give you a good comparison on videos, (not to bash the brand) but ThermoSpas has a nice video but nothing that convinced me like the Bullfrog. I'm sure other manufacturers use similar presentations to attract consumers into their brand, but again.... Nothing close to Bullfrog.
Other manufacturers will not dare touch most of the topics that Bullfrog has pointed out in the video.

Now, let's keep one thing clear.... I am not picking any sides yet as I have not made a final purchase, but here are some of the key features about Bullfrog that I picked out and thought were superior compared to other brands in the same class tub.

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) 
- Insulation is far superior to competitors
- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs
- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with)
- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub.
- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth....
- USA Made

With the all that said, I must wet test it to see jet performance, comfort and over all "real life" operation of the tub.
One thing is looking at a tub on paper and video, and the other is living it in real life....

There insulation is no different then others. Energy savings will be the same as a dozen other brands,  jet paks are a neat concept, shells are no stronger then others,  they aren't the only us made hot tub. Don't fall for all the marketing stuff. Wet test and let that be your determining factor

Roger that!

[Tman122]

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.
[/quote]

Every commercial and YouTube video about a product is designed to highlight the product as if it's the best on the market!
However, some brands stand above all the rest.
Using facts, side by side comparisons and some common sense should lead consumers on the right path.
 
Bullfrog in my opinion did a very good job using existing conventional comparisons vs the new ideas and why they claim to be better with facts by using videos, schematics, pictures and comparisons to prove the point! I applaud them for doing such a great job.
I'll give you a good comparison on videos, (not to bash the brand) but ThermoSpas has a nice video but nothing that convinced me like the Bullfrog. I'm sure other manufacturers use similar presentations to attract consumers into their brand, but again.... Nothing close to Bullfrog.
Other manufacturers will not dare touch most of the topics that Bullfrog has pointed out in the video.

Now, let's keep one thing clear.... I am not picking any sides yet as I have not made a final purchase, but here are some of the key features about Bullfrog that I picked out and thought were superior compared to other brands in the same class tub.

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) 
- Insulation is far superior to competitors
- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs
- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with)
- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub.
- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth....
- USA Made

With the all that said, I must wet test it to see jet performance, comfort and over all "real life" operation of the tub.
One thing is looking at a tub on paper and video, and the other is living it in real life....
[/quote]

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) Not true, Lots of brands have lifetime warranty on frame and base. Composite is used for tons of brands. 

- Insulation is far superior to competitors. Not even close. Show me the testing results

- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs. Not sure where this came from? But I guarantee there are tubs the same size that cost less to operate.

- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with) Arctic claimed they could change jets also. No one ever did but you could. This is a plus for BF but, moving the manifold to inside the tub WILL make it noisier.

- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub. 100% BS if the shell is strong enough to support the holes drilled in it forever. Making one stronger does not make it better or necessary. And who says its stronger Bull Frog? In my mind less holes means you can use less material in the shell. Show me the test results showing their shell is thicker and stronger in relevant testing.

- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth.... The feel of the tub is what is important. Less hose won't help that, simpler tech won't help that. And if you used the tub in the video as your comparison you have been deceived. I asked for them to identify the make and model of tub in the video comparison and they..........well they wouldn't answer

- USA Made Lots of tubs USA made but, how does this make it better? Is your TV USA made?

Please don't be swayed by miss truths and sales BS from a web site. Flow and feel has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the BF design. The one advantage they have is the ability for you to choose the jet pacs that feel best to you. But you may not like any of them? Wet test to find out what is best for you. Don't rely on a deceitful sales pitch or video. While it's different, it's still just sliced bread. And pushing water through lines to a distribution point can be done lots of ways. The HK jets and engineering from Marquis will blow away any jet on any jetpac. Combined with the right pump and distribution method it may feel worlds better than BF or any brand to you. But you will never know if you rely on a video and web site to steer you.

There is nothing wrong with BF. They make a fine tub. Just not better than 5-10 others. Just different.

[mpkelley20]

 "The HK jets and engineering from Marquis will blow away any jet on any jetpac. "



I have two of these in my marquis and they are insane.  Placed for leg and feet massage in my tub but other Marquis tubs have them for back massage.  I think they pump 250 gallons per minute or something like that. 

I remember my buying experience where the first place I went to sold Sundance and I was basically told that no one can touch Sundance as far as quality. Same guy then tried to sell me a Hot Springs.  Luckily I found this forum and listened to everyone and did wet tests.  Hence my buying a Marquis.  No regrets.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Hydrotherapy, Quality & Made in the USA...Bullfrog R6 or R6L if you prefer lounger, go shop it/wet test it and buy it, it'll be the best decision you've ever made

16 min. Bullfrog Consumer Video if you aren't real close to a showroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY

Happy Soaking!

Either way, I'm 90% hooked on this brand, after watching that long clip on YouTube.
Seems to me that they are on a different level all together....
I'm just hoping the price doesn't go sky rocket because of that.
If the A8L is priced too high, I think the R8L will do the job!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice....

R8L would be a good alternative for a few bucks less, you lose a few of the upgrades but the performance, JetPaks, etc. will all be the same...good luck!

[OldSchoolSwap]

It amazes me how well that video works at deceiving people.

[/quote]

- Frame/base components and construction (lifetime warranty and no rotting or degrading due to superior composites used) Not true, Lots of brands have lifetime warranty on frame and base. Composite is used for tons of brands. 

- Insulation is far superior to competitors. Not even close. Show me the testing results

- Energy savings almost slashed in half compared to competitors in the same class size tub and specs. Not sure where this came from? But I guarantee there are tubs the same size that cost less to operate.

- Upgradable jets with the Jetpaks, not stuck with the only thing drilled into the tub. Not to mention a wide variety of specific Jetpacks that will accommodate to your personal needs (not settling on what the "traditional" Spa came with) Arctic claimed they could change jets also. No one ever did but you could. This is a plus for BF but, moving the manifold to inside the tub WILL make it noisier.

- Stronger tubs without cheese like holes everywhere that diminish structural integrity of the tub. 100% BS if the shell is strong enough to support the holes drilled in it forever. Making one stronger does not make it better or necessary. And who says its stronger Bull Frog? In my mind less holes means you can use less material in the shell. Show me the test results showing their shell is thicker and stronger in relevant testing.
- Less hosing, simpler technology to deliver the water and so forth.... The feel of the tub is what is important. Less hose won't help that, simpler tech won't help that. And if you used the tub in the video as your comparison you have been deceived. I asked for them to identify the make and model of tub in the video comparison and they..........well they wouldn't answer
- USA Made Lots of tubs USA made but, how does this make it better? Is your TV USA made?
Please don't be swayed by miss truths and sales BS from a web site. Flow and feel has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the BF design. The one advantage they have is the ability for you to choose the jet pacs that feel best to you. But you may not like any of them? Wet test to find out what is best for you. Don't rely on a deceitful sales pitch or video. While it's different, it's still just sliced bread. And pushing water through lines to a distribution point can be done lots of ways. The HK jets and engineering from Marquis will blow away any jet on any jetpac. Combined with the right pump and distribution method it may feel worlds better than BF or any brand to you. But you will never know if you rely on a video and web site to steer you.
There is nothing wrong with BF. They make a fine tub. Just not better than 5-10 others. Just different.
[/quote]


Thanks again for all the advise as I take every word posted on this forum and expand my knowledge.
As stated before, I am aware of all the marketing tactics as I am a sales rep for over 15 years myself. So, I know the game very well.

In my first post I did a car brand comparison to get an idea where the hot tub industry sat so I can have a point of reference when shopping for tubs.
Nobody stepped up to the plate to give some guidance to avoiding further arguments amongst each other on this forum, which I completely understand.

However, I had to move on and keep learning and absorbing every manufacturers claims, benefits as I got drowned with so much info I had to step back and determine maybe I should do this by price? (which is impossible to get online unlike the automobile industry) so it makes research even harder for comparison reasons.
So I said to myself "ok" usually the rule of thumb is: "you get what you pay for" but I soon found out it's exhausting having to visit every dealer just to determine price for comparisons, and then sit down at home and do all the homework.

Some may say I'm over thinking it! But I say to myself, an $8k to $13k decision that will last over 15 years MUST be precisely selected with no regrets in my opinion.

I must agree with all of you. Wet testing by far is the best way to help make that decision, so I will keep "swimming" so to speak until I make up my mind in the end of all my comparisons.
I hope all newbies are coming along these posts and absorbing all the information. I'm sure they can relate with some of the frustration involved in hot tub shopping, haha! 

So far I've only been able to wet test the Sundance Aspen and loved it! But as stated in previous posts, I will wet test a few more to make a 110% no regret purchase.

As far as the Energy efficiency/consumption & insulation information. Here are comparisons against actual competitors and models:
http://www.bullfrogspas.com/energy-save/

Regarding the tub being made in the USA: I think units/tubs that are built here may have a better parts source in the future should anything break down 10 to 15 years from now and in the long run all together and not have to go to China for an obsolete part...  Plus you get to contribute employment "in house" on a large dollar amount purchase. Not to say I do this with every purchase, but sometimes doing the right thing is rewarding.

[Tman122]

You are on the right track. BF does not have exclusive rights to deceptive sales practices. And please don't compare them to Thermospa. There are those that consider BF the best. But everyone has what they feel is the best including me.

At least your past the big pumps mean great feel stage. Plumbing engineering and hydrodynamics is complicated. The top end manufacturers know how to make jets feel good. They know that there is a window between to much and not enough. And the good ones stretch the window to accommodate several feels. But which "feel" is yours? We don't know. And none of the manufacturers do either including BF which slices their bread different than Marquis, or Hot Springs, or D1, or any of the 10 or so "best"

Now, which manufacturer spends the most on engineering and hydrodynamics? But spending the most does not equate to the best either. Which manufacturer has the highest quality water movement guys?

They have come a long ways since "boxes of hot swirling water"

[Sam]

tman's odd obsession with Bullfrog continues.  I just want to point out that he has zero experience with a modern Bullfrog.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I wonder if anyone here has ever had to do a warranty claim on a frame?  Or on a shell?

I've mainly sold tubs with 2x4 wood construction, but I've also sold a few that weren't.  I've never heard of frame damage on a house (Unless a tornado happens to cross its path) and you live in one.  But somehow that isn't good enough for a hot tub?  But they made steel frames for hot tubs.  Now its composite.  Whats better?  That is not really the question that matters.  The one that matters is:  Has anyone ever had a warranty claim on a hot tub frame?

I haven't.  I haven't heard of anyone who has.  I bet if I look hard I can find one.  But is that a good representation of the industry as a whole?

Take this argument and apply to shells, knowing only 2 manufacturers of shells dominate the industry.  Has anyone had a shell warranty claim?  I haven't.  I don't know of anyone who has.  Again- I am sure I could search for one but is that an accurate representation as a whole?

The point is- When you're down this far into the rabbit hole, you're forgetting the major points.  This isn't to knock Bullfrog (which I do not carry) or anyone else's brand.  Its just to show how far you have to go to differentiate products/brands. 

Keep up with what brand is in your market- any brand that isn't there is just white noise and totally irrelevant to you.  Find out what dealers are reputable- You're going to do business with them a long time.  Be sure you trust them.  And above all else- Pick the tub that feels the best to you in both jet action and ergonomics. 

This is 90% of your decision. 

When you delineate from that, you get into these sorts of tit-for-tats.  Lets say Bullfrog hits you with their jetpacks and plumbing.  If I was selling against them I'd ask about how a jet is fixed once the water gets to it/the jet breaks, and then look at that whole cost.  Who's right?  The answer is:  It doesn't matter- This is at best 10% of your answer.  Don't bury the lede.

In the end its about you, the feel of the jets, the feel of the tub, and your relationship with the dealer.  That is the lede.