What to buy?

[BullFrogSpasMN]

tman's odd obsession with Bullfrog continues.  I just want to point out that he has zero experience with a modern Bullfrog.

it is slightly weird...then claims Marquis (who btw I believe makes a damn good spa) engineering blows away Bullfrog...Hmmm what's Marquis' newest feature this year?.....JET PODS, Hmmm what does a JET POD sound like? maybe a JetPak? haha even the industry is catching on and knows how powerful the message is, then claims his fav. brand is Dimension 1 (again good brand, nothing against them) but seriously when was their last updated design? 15 years ago? It seems he has issues with anything "new" and OMG the horror that companies actually market their products, those evil companies trying to sell stuff with marketing, how terrible.

[Hottubguy]

tman's odd obsession with Bullfrog continues.  I just want to point out that he has zero experience with a modern Bullfrog.

it is slightly weird...then claims Marquis (who btw I believe makes a damn good spa) engineering blows away Bullfrog...Hmmm what's Marquis' newest feature this year?.....JET PODS, Hmmm what does a JET POD sound like? maybe a JetPak? haha even the industry is catching on and knows how powerful the message is, then claims his fav. brand is Dimension 1 (again good brand, nothing against them) but seriously when was their last updated design? 15 years ago? It seems he has issues with anything "new" and OMG the horror that companies actually market their products, those evil companies trying to sell stuff with marketing, how terrible.

I actually agree with what you are saying. Marquis began working on the Jet Pod system back in 2014. I was on dealer advisory board when talks began on those. Can't really remember if bullfrog was the "new" popular Tub yet at that time. I agree they look great. Dimension one isn't the same as far as quality as they were 5-10 years ago. The only thing that would concern me as a bullfrog dealer is how they are getting so big so quick. 3-4 years ago they were barely a player. Now they are the new "best" thing. Hopefully the infrastructure of the company is setup to handle the big increase in production. Like Marquis I also like the fact that they are still made in the US

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 It's because some of the people that made Jacuzzi great again in 2002, (pardon the pun) went to BF and made them great again in 2014. Specially in design, functionality and quality.  Sales reps/support help as well.  I would like to thank Craig Selvedge big time who was a pioneer in the industry since the early 70s and all in all a great guy! Some here may know him?    Jerry Paisley was a huge part of bringing BF to what it is today as well as Jim Ferguson!   BF is a great company and I feel they care about the customer and the dealer and am proud to sell them. 

    Tman has a distain for their misleading sales tactics, but who cares, dinosaurs disappeared for a reason.. 

[Tman122]

tman's odd obsession with Bullfrog continues.  I just want to point out that he has zero experience with a modern Bullfrog.

But I have a lot of experience with BS

[Tman122]

tman's odd obsession with Bullfrog continues.  I just want to point out that he has zero experience with a modern Bullfrog.

it is slightly weird...then claims Marquis (who btw I believe makes a damn good spa) engineering blows away Bullfrog...Hmmm what's Marquis' newest feature this year?.....JET PODS, Hmmm what does a JET POD sound like? maybe a JetPak? haha even the industry is catching on and knows how powerful the message is, then claims his fav. brand is Dimension 1 (again good brand, nothing against them) but seriously when was their last updated design? 15 years ago? It seems he has issues with anything "new" and OMG the horror that companies actually market their products, those evil companies trying to sell stuff with marketing, how terrible.

Seems you BF salesman don't listen very good. I didn't say anything about Marquis engineering being better. I know nothing about BF as you stated. But the feel of the HK jets blew away the feel of the BF jetpacs I have sat in front of as recent as 1 year ago. The OP may or may not think so but basing his thoughts on a BS video is wrong. I also didn't say D1 was my favorite brand. The MOLD, WATER FLOW and JETS on the D1 Nautilis is my personal favorite. Been saying that for years. But as is typical, a salesman from an opposing brand puts a spin on something in order to try and convince someone that their views are right. And to skew the public's view to match theirs. Educating consumers to get them past a BS sales video that IMO is a waste of time and full of untruths is the goal. This is a help forum not a sales forum.

[Tman122]

and OMG the horror that companies actually market their products, those evil companies trying to sell stuff with marketing, how terrible.

During your investigation into your purchase old school don't forget this very wise quote from BFSM

[Tman122]

And why is it I am the bad guy, so against BF, obsessed were the words used to describe. When it truly is nothing more than the same BS or "marketing" as stated used again and again that has been called out so many times in the past.

If you BF salesman would like me to list the questions again that need to be answered that the video claims, I certainly will. But I never got the answers any of the previous times I asked.

Here's one of the questions, what tub was used for the 90% less plumbing comparison? But I dout the OP is even looking at that tub. But again we will never know.

Here's another question, how does less plumbing relate to a better jet feel?

Another, By putting the manifolds BF claims to not have, inside the vessel in the form of jetpacs, does it increase the cavitation noise inside the vessel.

Another, what is the warranty on the jetpac seals? Seems a common customer accessible failure point.

And another, what is the water flow in GPM of the current pumps used by BF? And what is the head loss?

I could go on and on. But the OP seems like a smart guy. I am sure he will investigate himself and I am sure he understands the BS spewed by BF better now.

My obsession is not with BF. They make a fine tub. My obsession is with B*** S***

[Water Boy]

And why is it I am the bad guy, so against BF, obsessed were the words used to describe. When it truly is nothing more than the same BS or "marketing" as stated used again and again that has been called out so many times in the past.

If you BF salesman would like me to list the questions again that need to be answered that the video claims, I certainly will. But I never got the answers any of the previous times I asked.

Here's one of the questions, what tub was used for the 90% less plumbing comparison? But I dout the OP is even looking at that tub. But again we will never know.

Here's another question, how does less plumbing relate to a better jet feel?

Another, By putting the manifolds BF claims to not have, inside the vessel in the form of jetpacs, does it increase the cavitation noise inside the vessel.

Another, what is the warranty on the jetpac seals? Seems a common customer accessible failure point.

And another, what is the water flow in GPM of the current pumps used by BF? And what is the head loss?

I could go on and on. But the OP seems like a smart guy. I am sure he will investigate himself and I am sure he understands the BS spewed by BF better now.

My obsession is not with BF. They make a fine tub. My obsession is with B*** S***

For those of us who have been around her for a while, Tman is speaking the truth here. He doesn't have it out for BF. He has called out several brands in the past (including the brand I sell) for what he sees as marketing BS. He and I have gone back and fourth some in the past, but it is all in fun. I can see how people can take it that way though, especially those who sell the product.

I actually agree with Tman that some of those claims are probably stretched quite a bit. The line of cutting spas energy use by at least half. No way that is true. The stronger shell than every other spa. Again, that is obviously not true, and that can't be proven no matter the swiss cheese line they use!

My .02 is top shop around at all of your good local dealers. Look at them all closely. Wet test to see what you like and dislike. Just because you like a lounger on one spa, doesn't mean you will like a lounger on the next spa. Compare warranties to make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

[Tman122]

And why is it I am the bad guy, so against BF, obsessed were the words used to describe. When it truly is nothing more than the same BS or "marketing" as stated used again and again that has been called out so many times in the past.

If you BF salesman would like me to list the questions again that need to be answered that the video claims, I certainly will. But I never got the answers any of the previous times I asked.

Here's one of the questions, what tub was used for the 90% less plumbing comparison? But I dout the OP is even looking at that tub. But again we will never know.

Here's another question, how does less plumbing relate to a better jet feel?

Another, By putting the manifolds BF claims to not have, inside the vessel in the form of jetpacs, does it increase the cavitation noise inside the vessel.

Another, what is the warranty on the jetpac seals? Seems a common customer accessible failure point.

And another, what is the water flow in GPM of the current pumps used by BF? And what is the head loss?

I could go on and on. But the OP seems like a smart guy. I am sure he will investigate himself and I am sure he understands the BS spewed by BF better now.

My obsession is not with BF. They make a fine tub. My obsession is with B*** S***

For those of us who have been around her for a while, Tman is speaking the truth here. He doesn't have it out for BF. He has called out several brands in the past (including the brand I sell) for what he sees as marketing BS. He and I have gone back and fourth some in the past, but it is all in fun. I can see how people can take it that way though, especially those who sell the product.

I actually agree with Tman that some of those claims are probably stretched quite a bit. The line of cutting spas energy use by at least half. No way that is true. The stronger shell than every other spa. Again, that is obviously not true, and that can't be proven no matter the swiss cheese line they use!

My .02 is top shop around at all of your good local dealers. Look at them all closely. Wet test to see what you like and dislike. Just because you like a lounger on one spa, doesn't mean you will like a lounger on the next spa. Compare warranties to make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Thanks Water Boy. But as you know facts and truth do not need support to be.........well, facts and truth.

It's a sales thing that I understand a lot more than most realize. While I was a repair tech for a lot of years I first and foremost am a purchasing agent for a very large contractor with a plumbing background. Been doing it for almost 30 years. And good purchasing is the anti sales.

Any one here know why working on downhill plumbing is more expensive than working on uphill plumbing? After all no pumps are required to get water to flow downhill.

Insults always fly when the facts don't match the sales pitch. No matter who the manufacturer is.

[Skysurfer2010]

I purchased a bullfrog (although an x series). I don't see anything wrong with what Tman has said in this particular thread. However, when all you dealers start bashing on each other and start the brand wars it only makes all you guys look bad and childish. Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to give you some insight from a consumer. In my career being a professional also means acting like one. Don't lower yourselves to the typical used care salesman stereotype.

Now I hope I haven't offended you guys since you all typically give great advice that make this forum what it is!

[The Wizard of Spas]

See page 1, post #10 of this thread 

But I do enjoy watching the banter 

[Skysurfer2010]

Sorry I shouldn't say "all" the dealers do it.

[Tman122]

See page 1, post #10 of this thread 

But I do enjoy watching the banter 

Good solid, kinda one sided debate. I don't take offense. The insults are subtle. Anyone's logic can be fogged by good salesmanship. Hear Hear guys. I've complimented BF guys on the effort in the past.

All the jets get full power. No diverters. No manifolds. I'm just a dumb plumber. I don't know anything about Bull Frog Spas.

[Hottubguy]

I purchased a bullfrog (although an x series). I don't see anything wrong with what Tman has said in this particular thread. However, when all you dealers start bashing on each other and start the brand wars it only makes all you guys look bad and childish. Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to give you some insight from a consumer. In my career being a professional also means acting like one. Don't lower yourselves to the typical used care salesman stereotype.

Now I hope I haven't offended you guys since you all typically give great advice that make this forum what it is!

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't anyone bashing any brand on here. There are many good brands out there. All things being equal a dealer of a specific product is going to push that product. I personally think BF makes a good product. I don't think they are the best but they are a solid brand

[OldSchoolSwap]

Wet tested the Bullfrog and was very impressed by the performance, quiet operation and overall comfort.
They also carry Dimension 1 and other brands in the facility which made things easier for me, for comparison reasons.

I'm still open to other brands but I am leaning towards the Bullfrog A8L or the R8L
So, the next question I guess would be.... what price would be a fair price for either model since they always start at the MSRP and then the hassle begins.