Master Spa Twilight 8.2 Pricing

[bachman]

When I was looking at Master Spa a few weeks ago. I was tossed up between Master, Marquis and Artisian. It took some time to get some clear idea's as to why people here don't like Master. Most if not all of the items I think are now mostly taken care of... Other then the poor business practice of the company. There is a history of them not standing behind deals and rebates they have made.. All said that was a few years ago.

As far as quality, they seem to be pretty similar components as best as I could tell to the brands I referenced. Mind you I say that as an end user and no experience fixing tubs,.

Swilly just bought a Master here in Canada and should be able to share his price as well. Pricing I was getting was $12k, $300 for cover lifter. That was for a Twilight 8.25 or 8.2.

That pricing sounds in line with what I rememeber mentioned on a HTU video. Chris of HTU was all excited about that model getting one for himself and even mentioned (what I'd guess was either MSRP or street price ?) at the time.

Since I know nothing about hot tubs firsthand, I'll just say that my impression of Master were Chris's bias or favorites, yet based on jets, insulation, motors, shell, glued and clamped and all the important things he touts -- I thought this series in the brand hit all those marks - - if that truly is some guarantee. IOW, did he build his pitch to fit Master or does Master build to hit the quality parameters ?

Also-
I wonder if the mix of brands and quality might result in some confusion simply because at each extreme, there are some good or even great built/designed tubs although represented in some cases by hawkers and slippery marketing types.
Then at the other end, mediocre to lower-end quality or technology designs represented by very nice looking store fronts or show rooms and professional upscale sales staff and advertising.
If so, it seems certain as a recipe for confusion and that being a goal in some "marketing", I can understand the heartburn and mistrust.

[swilly1000]

I shared in another post that the dealer offered the 8.25 for $CDN12,995+HST, which included the stairs, delivery and start-up chemical kit. I asked for the cover lifter, WI-FI app and ABS pan to be thrown in and the dealer accepted.

[swilly1000]

Apart from the price disclosure issue, I continue to be baffled by the hate-on for Master spas.  It strongly seems to me that their sales tactics are at the root of it.

Nowhere do I see specific examples of poor quality build or performance, only vague statements about them being mid-quality at best and that you can do better.  Give me specifics. There is something very fishy about these vagaries.

Call me selfish, but I don't care about their sales tactics.  If they are screwing their dealers by raiding their markets with tent sales, that's between them and their dealers.  I don't care.

If some of their dealers are unscrupulous and strong arm you then it's my job as the consumer to see through that when doing my due diligence. People are people and I suspect the presence of unethical dealers is no more prevalent with Masters than other brands. I don't care if there are unscrupulous dealers. 

What I do care about is associating myself with a good dealer and a good quality, high performance product.

The cynic in me is telling me that the hate-on is spawning fake reviews born out of resentment from being screwed around.  If I'm right it's pretty sad that disenchanted people are spreading malicious untruths about good product so that well-meaning consumers trying to sift through this murky market get misled and lied to in their search for a good tub.

I really like my tub so far and time will tell whether I made the right decision.  For now I feel like I did the due diligence and was rewarded for it. I get in my tub every night.  Apart from the amazing feel of the warm water and great jetting in my tub, a significant part of the enjoyment I'm getting every day stems from having done the research, including getting past the hate-on for Master.

[Spatech_tuo]

The cynic in me is telling me that the hate-on is spawning fake reviews born out of resentment from being screwed around.  If I'm right it's pretty sad that disenchanted people are spreading malicious untruths about good product so that well-meaning consumers trying to sift through this murky market get misled and lied to in their search for a good tub.

You're obviously on to us! Our two part plan to 1-spread lies to defame Master on this site, 2-create fake reviews for customers to see is now out in the open.

You've foiled our dastardly plan just like Scooby and Shaggy did every Saturday morning!

[kies1]

I noticed a difference in the silicone job around the lights, the panels are thinner etc. So me personally think Master Spa fit and finish is not as nice or ran than other brands I looked at. Just what I noticed when looking. This is from a consumer that looked at four different brands of tubs. I would not say Master the worst but definitly not the best and for what they were asking had a worse warranty as well. Not a hater just what I found. In the end you need to be happy with your choice as a consumer. If you are then enjoy and it really does not matter then what anyone else thinks. Make an educated decision that your happy with.

[d00nut]

Call me selfish, but I don't care about their sales tactics. 

You're selfish.

But seriously.  My biggest issue with Master is their sales tactics.  Why?

This industry is insanely confusing for a new consumer.  Then you have a company that literally could give two S&#$(&%*s about service, and just want to flood the market with hot tubs that mislead people with (MULTIPLE INDUSTRY LEADING BRANDS REPRESENTED, WAS $20500 BUT FOR YOU TODAY ONLY $7000)

This BS only pushes our industry further into mistrust.  Not only that, let's say it's on par with a great brand.  Well... great brands have issues too... but they have the service to make sure that down time is at a minimum.

If you got a sleazy sales person telling you that nothing ever bad happens, but they don't have local service... your word of mouth doesn't just reflect poorly on the specific product you bought, but you will probably go out and complain about how hot tubs are just a pain.

I despise Master Spas for their sleazy used car sales tactics.  If you look at past posts of mine, I really don't rip their quality.  If anything, they are better than most.  However, in general, people find themselves screwed if they need something taken care of under warranty or outside. 

I'm happy that you find nothing wrong with the above, and I hope that you don't experience the ugly side of Master as so many others have.

[swilly1000]

The cynic in me is telling me that the hate-on is spawning fake reviews born out of resentment from being screwed around.  If I'm right it's pretty sad that disenchanted people are spreading malicious untruths about good product so that well-meaning consumers trying to sift through this murky market get misled and lied to in their search for a good tub.

You're obviously on to us! Our two part plan to 1-spread lies to defame Master on this site, 2-create fake reviews for customers to see is now out in the open.

You've foiled our dastardly plan just like Scooby and Shaggy did every Saturday morning!

Yeah I guess I am.  Thankfully, this is recreational for me.  It's your livelihood and your integrity for you.

[swilly1000]

Call me selfish, but I don't care about their sales tactics. 

You're selfish.

I was waiting for that lol.  But seriously, should you being frustrated by their sales tactics matter to the guy who's just trying to get a good tub?  Does that mean that Joe Consumer should be told it's a crappy product?

[Tman122]

Nowhere do I see specific examples of poor quality build or performance, only vague statements about them being mid-quality at best and that you can do better.  Give me specifics. There is something very fishy about these vagaries.

They sell well in the twin cities area of Minnesota, they are represented heavy in the area. Their insulation is lacking, their fit and finish is also sub high end. They use middle of the road components.

They are a middle of the road tub and not alone in that category.

I've seen tons of them and built my opinion from that. I am like you, I could care less how they sell the product. I can determine for myself how good they are. And I did.

Have you ever purchased duct tape from a big box store versus duct tape from an HVAC supplier? Besides costing more at your local HVAC supplier, it is different duct tape, and better. PVC, glue, clamps, fasteners, valves, jets, heater cores, controls resin, fiberglass, acrylic, insulation, covers, service, and every other part of a hot tub. All these things have crappy, OK and good grades. I suggest you try this simple experiment. Get a 6 dollar roll of duct tape and a 10 dollar roll and see if you can spot the differences. It may not matter to you that it's different, but it matters to some of us.

In the hot tub world my only hope is that someone buying a cheap or mediocre tub doesn't think that they are all like the one they bought. They could of got quieter, more efficient, better looking and better hydrotherapy and more longevity. But they may not care as long as the water is hot.

[swilly1000]

Be specific.  And not about duct tape. This a hot tub.

Insulation is full foam iceyene.  What are others doing that's better?

Controller and heating system is Balboa.  What are others doing that's better?

Jets are Waterways (may recently have changed to CMP) mid and high flow.  And two of the huge 10" jets for the feet.  Virtually none of those crappy little low flow 2" jets.  What are others doing that's better?

My tub has twin 6hp pumps. What are others doing that's better?

The shell is hand rolled vinyl esther resin self supporting.  What are others doing that's better?

I pulled the skirt off mine a few times.  It didn't feel or look cheap to me. What are others doing that's better?

I only wet tested one other brand....a Marquis Vector.  The massage performance felt virtually the same as mine.  I will concede that my experience is limited and I look forward to getting into other brand tubs to test my theory.  My main desire is the massage therapy so when I see tubs in show rooms that are loaded up with cheap low flow 2" jets they get immediately taken off my list.  And even though I'm inexperienced, I have seen lots of those.

Would be most interested in hearing specifics, not vagaries.

[castletonia]

If the company (corporate) allows sleazy dealers, what does that say about the company?  If you cannot be honest during the sales presentation, what else are you lying about?

Master Spa is not a garbage product.  They are also not a premium product.  They use confer cabinets which are inexpensive, flimsy, and have a tendency to warp.  Their insulation is less than other premium brands.  In the past they used low quality cover manufacturers that had poor longevity.  I believe they make their own covers now and its too early to tell if they are decent or not.  Fit and finish (not the finished product was assembled) is lacking for product that wants to make people believe they are high end.  Their components are all off the shelf Balboa products.  Balboa makes high end and budget products and from my perspective it appears Master is using the middle tier and entry level.  Their shell designs to me appear somewhat cookie cutter meaning they are not much if at all different from a few other manufacturers indicating that instead of designing their own, they are settling for someone else's design to save money.

In my opinion, Master Spa is similar in quality to Maax, Dynasty, Cal Spas, Clearwater, and Premium Leisure.  Of those 5, only Master and Cal get much hate and it has to do with how they run their company and market their product.  To those that complain that this is not a transparent industry, by large you have Master Spas and Cal Spas to thank for that.

[castletonia]

Be specific.  And not about duct tape. This a hot tub.

Insulation is full foam iceyene.  Is it really full foam?  Have you removed the sides and its tight to the cabinet?  What are others doing that's better?

Controller and heating system is Balboa.    What version of Balboa?  They make good and economical.  Just because it's Balboa doesn't make it automatically good.  What are others doing that's better?

Jets are Waterways (may recently have changed to CMP) mid and high flow.  And two of the huge 10" jets for the feet.  Virtually none of those crappy little low flow 2" jets.  What are others doing that's better?

My tub has twin 6hp pumps.  No it doesn't.  Unless those motors are pulling 16+ amps, their not 6HP, and horsepower doesn't matter.  It's about feel. What are others doing that's better?

The shell is hand rolled vinyl esther resin self supporting.  Its about thickness and how good a job was done in manufacturing.  Shell also will rarely be an issue.  I've had one bad shell in the last 15 years.  What are others doing that's better?

I pulled the skirt off mine a few times.  It didn't feel or look cheap to me. What are others doing that's better?

I only wet tested one other brand....a Marquis Vector.  The massage performance felt virtually the same as mine.  I will concede that my experience is limited and I look forward to getting into other brand tubs to test my theory.  My main desire is the massage therapy so when I see tubs in show rooms that are loaded up with cheap low flow 2" jets they get immediately taken off my list.  And even though I'm inexperienced, I have seen lots of those.

Would be most interested in hearing specifics, not vagaries.

[Spatech_tuo]

My tub has twin 6hp pumps. What are others doing that's better?

6 HP pumps lol!

Reputable spa companies list continuous HP. Disreputable spa companies using those same pumps list only their brake HP because its an inflated number that tricks unassuming customers into thinking it has more power.

[Tman122]

Be specific.  And not about duct tape. This a hot tub.

Insulation is full foam iceyene.  What are others doing that's better?

Controller and heating system is Balboa.  What are others doing that's better?

Jets are Waterways (may recently have changed to CMP) mid and high flow.  And two of the huge 10" jets for the feet.  Virtually none of those crappy little low flow 2" jets.  What are others doing that's better?

My tub has twin 6hp pumps. What are others doing that's better?

The shell is hand rolled vinyl esther resin self supporting.  What are others doing that's better?

I pulled the skirt off mine a few times.  It didn't feel or look cheap to me. What are others doing that's better?

I only wet tested one other brand....a Marquis Vector.  The massage performance felt virtually the same as mine.  I will concede that my experience is limited and I look forward to getting into other brand tubs to test my theory.  My main desire is the massage therapy so when I see tubs in show rooms that are loaded up with cheap low flow 2" jets they get immediately taken off my list.  And even though I'm inexperienced, I have seen lots of those.

Would be most interested in hearing specifics, not vagaries.

Would you like me to break this down line by line or was Cast's post enough?

I will hit one line, there is no such thing as a continuous 6 HP spa pump. You were lied to. But HP has absolutely nothing to do with feel.

[kies1]

I tried to find the specs on their pumps in their website and all it says is two pumps. No mention what kind they are or how much horsepower. Brake horsepower compared to actual horsepower the pumps are putting out are two different things. If you look at certain manufacturers they list the true horsepower and what kind of pump it is not just stating two pumps. Some state actual horsepower but do not state what kind of pump and some do not list either. Obviously there is a reason why manufacturers do this, pretty easy to figure out why lol.