Energy efficiency and mid size tub depth

[Vjdslk]

I've noticed the difference between the average mid-level model 5 person-325 gallon tub vs. 7-8 person-400+ gallon tub in the same series line from any of the main competitors runs about $5-$8 dollars less/month in electrical costs.  It appears the manufacturers use an average temperature of 70 degree outdoor temperature for these ratings.  My question is do these differences in dollar figures remain constant in colder temperatures?  Obviously both size tubs will cost more to maintain their heat in 20 degree temps but does the additional 75-100 gallons of water in the larger tub start to cost considerably more to heat at colder temps?

I have enjoyed my Tiger River Siberian (8 person 430 gal - economy level Hotsprings spa) tub for the last 16 years and it is economical to operate in temperate Sacramento, Ca.  We will be moving to Salt Lake City soon and it is considerably colder during the winter months.  Since the kids are gone, I'm thinking of downsizing a little but I am 6'3" 235lbs and the 33"-34" deep tubs look awfully shallow. 

I don't have a big desire for the added features of each manufacturer's premium line spas. Is the insulation that much better to justify the additional $2000-$2500 difference from their mid level spa line?  If there is only a $10 savings in electrical cost due to better insulation, it would take 18 years to make up the savings in electrical costs from their mid-level spa.

I'm thinking I will be looking for open seating, (don't like lounges) 325-350 gallon, 36" deep, mid range series tub, $7k-$8k price range, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of options out there.

Any suggestions?  Thank you in advance!

[Spatech_tuo]

It all depends on elec rates but the difference between a well insulated spa and one not so good is going to be more than $10/month and often much much more.

i think you can get a decent spa for 7-8k that is still well insulated. What options will you have in your new area.

[Hottubguy]

It all depends on elec rates but the difference between a well insulated spa and one not so good is going to be more than $10/month and often much much more.

i think you can get a decent spa for 7-8k that is still well insulated. What options will you have in your new area.

I think he is talking about staying in the hot springs family of tubs. The hot spot line and the limelight both use the same type of insulation. No circ pump and smaller jet nozzles on the hot spot versus limelight. Energy efficiency should be with in $10-15 a month or so

[Vjdslk]

Thank you for the quick replies.  I'm not tied to any manufacturer.  I'm looking to see what the cost difference is between midsize tubs and larger tubs in the same lines like a Bullfrog X6 vs X7, or a Marquis E435 vs E660 in 10-20 degree winter temperatures.  If it is only $5-$10 difference, I would opt for the larger tub, but if the additional 75 gallons or so starts costing $30 - $50/month more, then I will probably opt for the smaller tub.  Salt lake city has dealers for all the top manufacturers like Bullfrog, Sundance, jacuzzi, Hotsprings, Marquis, D1, etc.

If a company's premium spa would have a large monthly savings over their mid value line where I could justify the price difference over 5-10 years, I would spend the additional money.  Ex Sundance 680 v. 880 series or isn't there that much energy savings?

Thanks again for your insight

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I think any top end and even some low end manufacturers of a spa is going to be in the 10 to 20 a month range. Less than 10 a month doubtful. Either way, unless you can really separate the bill out to blame the hot tub and not anything else, don't sweat it and enjoy.     

[bud16415]

We live in Northern Pennsylvania up on Lake Erie and get some super cold polar blasts every winter. I don’t have facts and figures on all makes of tubs but our Caldera spa with the fibercor insulation is amazing at what a good job it does.

Here is my take on sizing, seating and energy usage. If you are a big guy you need a big tub even more so in cold climate if you are going to enjoy it. Our tub every seat is a different height regardless of how the jets are placed to give each seat a special function they are also nice for social tubing with others of different size people and also for cooling down by exposing more skin above the water line. If you are tall in the cold climate you need a deep tub. Three inches makes a huge difference IMO.

Wind is maybe a bigger factor or at least as big as outside temp. with the snow here we have a covered pergola for year round. As it gets colder I have some windbreak sides I add that go about one foot above the sides of the tub. And when the deep freeze comes I have them so I can bring them up and close the tub in for a couple months. With doing that and starting with a quality tub with great insulation I feel we more than make up the 10 bucks of so we might save with less water. If I lived in a warm climate I wouldn’t have spent as much on a tub. The colder the climate the more I think the premium models pay off. But if you want to enjoy your tub in zero temps you need to have not much more than your head out of the water, at least until you want to cool down a little.     

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm looking to see what the cost difference is between midsize tubs and larger tubs in the same lines

If a spa is well insulated then there's really not much difference in energy use between the mid size and large size spa coming from the same line.

[The Wizard of Spas]

You're going to see an increase of operational cost across the board due to the climate.  The added cost is going to be a flat rate in a sense.  I don't think there is much difference in costs mid range vs mid range, top end vs top end.

If you're looking at the operational cost in mid vs top end, though that is an expense that after several years can manifest into a tangible dollar amount, there are other more pertinent differences between mid and top end that will be the actual reason you choose one over the other.

Additionally- Intangibles such as quality of parts, motors, feel of the jets, comfort of the tub, so on so forth cannot be monetized but is so much more important than operational costs when you look at the relevance.

Find a few tubs in the brands you are considering, zero in on the ones that are comfortable and in your price range, then consider the dealer and their reputation.  All of those aspects are way more important.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

[Vjdslk]

Thanks to everyone for the good insights to my concerns. I appreciate it!

[KristenReed]

Thanks for the advice!

[BullFrogSpasMN]

"Is the insulation that much better to justify the additional $2000-$2500 difference from their mid level spa line?  If there is only a $10 savings in electrical cost due to better insulation, it would take 18 years to make up the savings in electrical costs from their mid-level spa."

Just keep in mind on most major manufacturers the $2,000-$3,000 difference to go to the "top end" collection(s) does get you more than an insulation upgrade...as mentioned you can save well over $10 per month but you can also get (these are just examples I pulled off the top of my head from various manufacturers) 2 and even in some cases 3 more years of component warranty (go from a 2/3 year to 5 year warranty), Extra Lighting, Upgraded Topside Control Heads, More variety as far as jetting as concerned, More Color Options, etc. etc.  Now of course if you are looking for a relative "no-frills" tub than you may not see value in any of those potential upgrades at which point it of course doesn't make sense for you to jump up collections...good luck!

[Skysurfer2010]

"Is the insulation that much better to justify the additional $2000-$2500 difference from their mid level spa line?  If there is only a $10 savings in electrical cost due to better insulation, it would take 18 years to make up the savings in electrical costs from their mid-level spa."

Just keep in mind on most major manufacturers the $2,000-$3,000 difference to go to the "top end" collection(s) does get you more than an insulation upgrade...as mentioned you can save well over $10 per month but you can also get (these are just examples I pulled off the top of my head from various manufacturers) 2 and even in some cases 3 more years of component warranty (go from a 2/3 year to 5 year warranty), Extra Lighting, Upgraded Topside Control Heads, More variety as far as jetting as concerned, More Color Options, etc. etc.  Now of course if you are looking for a relative "no-frills" tub than you may not see value in any of those potential upgrades at which point it of course doesn't make sense for you to jump up collections...good luck!

Purely out of curiosity since you're a BF dealer... I didn't see anywhere for the BF spas that the insulation is any different between their lowest end X series up to their top end A series. I assumed it's all the same in regards to bullfrog. Is that true? In my speculation you get a lot of bang for the buck with their x series.

[Hottubprosne]

The x, r and a series are all insulated the same. The a and r just have a little less plumbing than the x. BTW i have been super happy with the x series.

[TheSunshyn]

I just started looking into fibercor more because I noticed newish Caldera tubs have almost twice the dry weight as other comparably sized spas. The weight seems to be due to the insulation change.

Dealers seem to speak very highly of the fibercore so I'm now very curious, if its so great, why does it only seem to be on the Hot Spot line of Hot Springs spas?
Heck, if its really as efficient and cost effective as the marketing says, I want it for home insulation. 

[Hottubguy]

I just started looking into fibercor more because I noticed newish Caldera tubs have almost twice the dry weight as other comparably sized spas. The weight seems to be due to the insulation change.

Dealers seem to speak very highly of the fibercore so I'm now very curious, if its so great, why does it only seem to be on the Hot Spot line of Hot Springs spas?
Heck, if its really as efficient and cost effective as the marketing says, I want it for home insulation. 

Hot spring also uses it on the limelight series. I am a Caldera dealer and asked that question to my Watkins rep (also the hot springs rep). He told me it's because the high life spas aren't self supporting and need the rigid foam to hold the spa together. I'm guessing that isn't the exact entire truth as I'm a Caldera dealer not a HS dealer. My customers that have tubs with fibercor seem pretty pleased with their overall operating costs.