Electric Cost to Maintain Tub

[Constance]

In shopping for hot tub (I'm a first time buyer), I'm getting so frustrated with trying to figure out which salesperson is telling me the truth regarding the insulation and electrically cost to run a tub.  I have one saleman who says the cost to run a tub 3-4 times a week is about $30 no matter what type on foam/insulation you have.  He does not recommend full foam and says it can cause leaks in the future due to the pressure of the foam.  Also it is more expensive to find and fix a leak in a full foam and one with a layer of foam on the tub, then air space with the box lined with insulation.  
One saleman tells me that full foam is the only way to go.  He said the full foam helps prevent leaks by not allowing the pipes to shake.  He says full foam cost about 1/2 what the foam/reg insulation cost.  he said it would be about $20 a month locally.
The third dealer says the full foam is cheaper to operate and has encouraged us more toward full foam.
All three dealers carry full foam and foam/regular insulation tubs.
PLEASE HELP!!  What is the real scoop??

[Chas]

Most major name brands tend to cost roughly the same to operate. And all major name brands have warranty coverage to ensure you don't have to worry about leaks anyway.

That's the very last thing you need to worry about: what type of insulation your tub has. Didn't any of these geniuses spend any time telling you about how much FUN it is to own a tub? Did any of them mention that it makes you feel better, sleep better and can actually improve your quality of life? Did they show you any jets that move up and down, rotate, pulse, pound, or even pamper?

Fountains that dance and dazzle? Sound systems to add a little sizzle to the scene?

Quiet moments together with loved ones, entertaining friends, solo soaking under the stars? Any of this ringing a bell?

Stick with a major name brand, ask about the features, and figure out which of those features equal benefits to you and your family. Then choose a color, and buy the thing.

You'll love it.l

[ZzTop]

Repost:

Full foam offers the highest potential insulating value.  It supports the plumbing (has less leaks) and insulates it from pipe movement and vibration.  It offers quieter operation.  It inhibits insects and mice from living in the cavity surrounding the tub.

Note: Our houses are fully insulated, (No Air Space in the walls), . . and we don’t leave off the interior drywall so that you can get to the plumbing lines to repair leaks.  If your contractor told you he was just going to put just foil in your 6" exterior walls would you let him?  Think about it.

Fridges are fully Foamed to maximize their R rating.  The more foam the better.

Coleman coolers are FULLY FOAMED!

A Thermos has space inside it but it is in a VACUUM.  Thermopane does not use a vacuum.

It makes absolutely NO sense to not support the plumbing lines with a little or no insulation in a Thermopane design.

Having pumps, wires and electronics operating in 100 plus degrees of constant heat cannot be good for their longevity.

While both systems work, the greatest long term problem is rigid support of the plumbing especially at the jets.  Each time the pumps are turned on there is a shock to the pipes which can stress the pipe where it is attached to the jet fitting.  As the tub ages these problems become apparent in some designs where no  or very little foam is used for support of the pipes.

Advantages of Thermopane:

If you like your mice dry roasted it is a great design.  It might be good for dehydrating meat and fruit, any one for some rodent Jerky? Oh yeah I almost forgot . . .you can keep your towels warm.

Yes, you can get at and fix a leak easier.  It seems that there are far fewer leaks in a full foam tub.   Just ask the guys that repair them.

It costs less to manufacture a Thermopane design., Foam is expensive.

Now Martha is the jury still out?

It also should be mentioned  that it is better to fully insulate all four sides of a Spa, than three, and that the greatest heat loss in a spa is at the waters surface.
So a Spa blanket and and a very well insulated Spa Cover are very big factors in fully insulating your spa and will be reflected in your total energy costs.

ps: You folks in sunny Florida might want to ignore some of this rant as us Northern folks just don't have your kind of weather.

Regards Zz

[windsurfdog]

Zztop said:  "Coleman coolers are FULLY FOAMED!"

Man, after all of these years I neven thought of that one!  Thanks - I'll gladly use that. I may even go buy a cooler to keep on each showroom floor as a silent reminder.....
 
LOL        

And Coleman spas are not fully foamed........hmmmmm......could this make an even greater statement for thermopane?

[Chas]

Well, since Coleman makes the chests, but doesn't make the spas, I would say no.  

I guess what I'm saying is: the REAL Coleman knows what works: Full foam.  

[rick]

Here we go again.  The Full foamers just can't stay shut up.  They are so threatened by a different technology that they start "circling the wagons"  anytime somebody has the gall to talk about benefits of thermopane.    
All you spa shoppers out there, just listen to them.  Make your own judgments but just listen to them.   If they were sooooo configdent that their full foam technology was soooooo much better than thermopane, they wouldn't be spending sooooooo much time trashing thermopane.  They would ignore this "stepchild" technology like they should be ignoring a renegade Haven spa owner.   But they don't do they?  They react like anybody would react when they are truly threatened by something or somebody that doesn't do things the way they do.  It's spa racism I tell ya!!!  

Such a bold statement Chas,  to personally know what Coleman thinks.   I didn't know you had such close connections with the R&D staff at the real Coleman.  Again people, not to be confused with the "fake" Coleman spas that are being made by a company called MAXX.   (and why is it assumed that MAXX must be making an inferior product because it used to be made by Coleman?)
So Coleman knows what's right with spas because their ice chests are full foam?  
I believe before Coleman sold the rights to MAXX on their spas that they were already doing them thermopane.  So yes, maybe Coleman does know the way to go.  

Jees you guys,  can't you give it a rest and just laud the benefits of your own stuff?   It's just like these politicians out here.  They spend more time dissing the competition than speaking of the positives of their agenda.  

For what it's worth to all you new spa shoppers,  I've owned a Coleman for a half year now and it costs me  $20 a month in electricity.  I run 2 3hour filter cycles a day plus this spa gets used every day, multiple times.   The full foamer's claim to better insulation is a tired one.  

Nothing like a good religious war to get one's blood boiling!   Bring it on guys.  

[empolgation]

Is thermopane available for my house? Or is sheetrock good enough?
... I hate putting all that insulation in the walls.

[rick]

Well if you had the desire to fill your house up with water and heat it up, I'd go with thermopane for the house.  Sure.  And don't forget to tear down your wood frame and redo it in Galvalume. I'd probably go with a wetwall instead of the "now not so drywall".    

On a side note, I was just thinking too,, (I know, that's not very smart),,  but thinking about the Coleman ice chests and their full foam implementation;  it only makes sense that the chest would be full foam, your walls are too damm thin to even bother with a thermopane design.  No brainer.  So bad analogy.    

[spahappy]

Way to go Rick!!

Constance this is a repost of mine. Look up the websites on the bottom for a unbiased comparison of insulation.

I just have to jump in here. Before I start, it's great to hear from Superted and Rick! This board needs more Coleman Spa owners/dealers, ect. on line.
 
I’ve been selling Coleman Spas since 1994 in North Dakota. Yes that is right above South Dakota, and we are not the end of the earth!! However on a clear day if you stand on you car you can see it from here. Sorry, a little N.D humor.

Zz you are so right in your observation comparing our house insulation to the insulation in spas. We make our houses more efficient by putting insulation on our walls and attic. We install air tight windows and put high efficiency furnaces inside to heat our homes. This seals cold air out and warm air in… This is what Coleman’s Thermo Lock technology does. They start be spraying 2 to 4 inches of high density foam on the spa shell. The tubs have a solid ABS pan bottom with 1 ¼” polystyrene bead board over that. The beadboard has a lining of reflectex. Reflectex is a silver reflective foil that will reflect radiant heat from the spa’s plumbing and equipment back up onto the spa shell. The cabinets are maintenance free Duramax, which is mounted on ABS board for strength than attached to the 1 ¼” poly-beadboard and lined with the reflectex. Coleman recaptures all of the heat generated by the equipment because we have a sealed, insulated, heated, dead air space all the way around the shell of the tub. Just like the technology in a house we seal cold air out and warm air in.

The whole hype on the board about needing full foam to support plumbing is not at all true. First of all if that were the case, why would Coleman have a 5 year plumbing warranty? They would go broke fixing all the leaks. Second, take a full foam tub like Sundance. (I’m not picking on Sundance I think they have a good product!) look at the space they have their equipment in. What you will see is plumbing coming from the foam and into the equipment this is totally not supported in that part of the spa. How does that work?

The Thermo Lock also insulates the equipment noise. When we do tradeshows and fairs I always check out the competition, our spas are always quieter than full foam spa’s.

My spa is outside on the northwest side of my house with nothing around it. The winters here are cold!!! And long, it snowed two nights ago May 25th. My spa runs me around 25.00 to 30.00 in the coldest winter months, and we use our spa all winter long.

 Here are some websites to check out on foam insulation.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/refbriefs/ed3.html
http://www.buyersinspectionservice.com/faq-insul-allabout.html

Now Martha is the jury still out.
         Spahappy    

[spahappy]

Zztop said:  "Coleman coolers are FULLY FOAMED!"


And Coleman spas are not fully foamed........hmmmmm......could this make an even greater statement for thermopane?

Excuse me but coolers are not fully foamed. The last time I put my beer in one it went like this...
The cooler has insulating walls, I put the ice in, put the beer in, left some air space so my beer doesn't get smashed and tadaa,,, thermolock!!!

Full foam dealer have been resorting to this showroom prop for years. In my experience most consumers get turned off by such antics

Spahappy

[spahappy]

Per Chas
I guess what I'm saying is: the REAL Coleman knows what works: Full foam.[/quote]

Chas,

For as long as you've been in this business you should remember that Coleman started making their spas right from the start with thermolock insulation. This was well over a decade before MAAX purchased the spa division from Coleman.

Since you stated yourself that the cost to run per month is roughly the same, why the jabs at Coleman?

Didn't you just say that a spa is all about family time and how it will make you sleep better and feel better and improve your life and just pick the color and buy it.

Don't we all agree the wet test is the most important step in purchasing a spa?

I've never said a negative thing about Hotsprings, no matter how I feel about them, or any other brand by the way!!! Not even Haven!

I feel for new spa shoppers like Constance. How they must veiw the salesmen and saleswomen in this business. It's no wonder she's fed up with spa shopping.

Hang in there Constance! Do yourself a favor and wet test any spa you're interested in. When you find the right one, and your sitting in it in your yard, this will all be a distant memory.

Spahappy

[spahappy]

Zz,
I admire your conviction to full foam and the research you've done on spas. But as you once told me, change is a way of life. I feel the winds of change in this industry. I predict more companies will turn to steel frames, ABS solid pan bottoms, and yes thermolock!!!
Spahappy

[ZzTop]

Coleman's (MAXX) steel frame is an excellent idea.  Much better than other manufacturers using steel.  It would not suprise me that the industry goes this way in the future.

As for the rest, time will tell.

Regards, Zz

[Ready2Buy1]

We have the Sundance Optima, which is a fully foamed spa, and during its first two months of use the average electric use for the tub was $30.00/month.

I will note that our spa is outside and we keep the insulated cover on when not in use. We have our temperature set to 85 degrees...although the water temperature has been between 92-94 degrees with the thermal affects of the sun (maybe the insulation too).

The spa is programmed to run the four regular filtering cycles in a 24 period and we have ozone on the spa too...

[ebirrane]

Good lord, spahappy!

I know that hot air is a hallmark of the thermopane design, but I didn't know it was also a characteristic of the people who support it!

Just some gentle kidding on seeing, like, 7 posts in a row.

-Ed