Caldera vs other brands

[The Wizard of Spas]

As a spa dealer with almost 16 years experience (still newer in this industry than most posters in this forum, tho) and as a competitor to each of these brands, I'd like to chime in...

I have never really believed in filtration and ozone/whatever neat name for a built-in sanitation system as a sales point:  Yes- Filters are necessary and yes ozone does help with bacteria and reduces chemical usage.  BUT:  Here are 2 things that are universally true for me-
1.  Every time some factory rep told me about their special filtration/ozone, they said something along the lines of "This is a 'story' that is unique to the brand and a reason to have the customer comeback to your store to buy this specific filter/differentiates your brand from others."

2.  NOTHING is more important than water chemistry.  Your filters or ozone will not clear up green water.  Water chemistry is by FAR the most important thing you need to know about.  And that will be the same for any spa you look at.

This is not knocking either of those brands:  My brands do the same thing.  Its all apart of the sales game.  We all get told a song and a dance.  I choose to not repeat these songs to my customers as I prefer to keep their attention focused on what really matters.  I'm Gen-x/Millennial and we tend to prefer the directness and honesty that was lacking in the salesmanship of yesteryear (And why the negative connotation of being "a used car salesman" is prevalent).

As far as costs:  I've seen all kinds of dealers tout energy efficiency.  However, I have not seen any *actual* changes in these brands/products.  I think that they just started marketing more loudly what they had already done.  Let me put it this way:  If one product is, say, $4 more/month than another, is that going to be the deciding factor?  If so, REALLY?  $4/month is nothing, whether it be efficiency or built-in sanitiziers.

As far as chemicals, I offer 4 different types of sanitizers and I can sell for or against all 4.  And you can use any sanitizer on any tub.  Built-in stuff like SPA FROG usually has alternatives that you can float/install in your filter.  So I think that is a non-issue.

What I am trying to lead up to is:  These questions should not be the deciding answers.  You're very far down on the list.  This isn't your fault- Salesmen like to oversell things to differentiate or play up things.  Its more about what feels better, what fits you better, how reputable the dealer is, how long the dealer has been in business/carried the product, etc.  It would be one thing if you were looking at a high-end tub vs a low end tub.  But these two brands are close enough in quality.  I'll leave it to others to split hairs.

The two brands you are looking at also have a lot of funny similarities:  Both were bought by a big company (Watkins = Caldera, Apollo Group = Sundance) and are kinda positioned as the 1B in the pecking order (1A's being Hot Springs and Jacuzzi, respectively) by the parent company.

In their own regards, they're fine brands.  I think you're getting a bit spa drunk as you're getting a ton of info and trying to sift through it all.  I say keep it simple.  If one just feels better and fits you better, that is likely the one for you.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

[simonsez1]

As a spa dealer with almost 16 years experience (still newer in this industry than most posters in this forum, tho) and as a competitor to each of these brands, I'd like to chime in...

I have never really believed in filtration and ozone/whatever neat name for a built-in sanitation system as a sales point:  Yes- Filters are necessary and yes ozone does help with bacteria and reduces chemical usage.  BUT:  Here are 2 things that are universally true for me-
1.  Every time some factory rep told me about their special filtration/ozone, they said something along the lines of "This is a 'story' that is unique to the brand and a reason to have the customer comeback to your store to buy this specific filter/differentiates your brand from others."

2.  NOTHING is more important than water chemistry.  Your filters or ozone will not clear up green water.  Water chemistry is by FAR the most important thing you need to know about.  And that will be the same for any spa you look at.

This is not knocking either of those brands:  My brands do the same thing.  Its all apart of the sales game.  We all get told a song and a dance.  I choose to not repeat these songs to my customers as I prefer to keep their attention focused on what really matters.  I'm Gen-x/Millennial and we tend to prefer the directness and honesty that was lacking in the salesmanship of yesteryear (And why the negative connotation of being "a used car salesman" is prevalent).

As far as costs:  I've seen all kinds of dealers tout energy efficiency.  However, I have not seen any *actual* changes in these brands/products.  I think that they just started marketing more loudly what they had already done.  Let me put it this way:  If one product is, say, $4 more/month than another, is that going to be the deciding factor?  If so, REALLY?  $4/month is nothing, whether it be efficiency or built-in sanitiziers.

As far as chemicals, I offer 4 different types of sanitizers and I can sell for or against all 4.  And you can use any sanitizer on any tub.  Built-in stuff like SPA FROG usually has alternatives that you can float/install in your filter.  So I think that is a non-issue.

What I am trying to lead up to is:  These questions should not be the deciding answers.  You're very far down on the list.  This isn't your fault- Salesmen like to oversell things to differentiate or play up things.  Its more about what feels better, what fits you better, how reputable the dealer is, how long the dealer has been in business/carried the product, etc.  It would be one thing if you were looking at a high-end tub vs a low end tub.  But these two brands are close enough in quality.  I'll leave it to others to split hairs.

The two brands you are looking at also have a lot of funny similarities:  Both were bought by a big company (Watkins = Caldera, Apollo Group = Sundance) and are kinda positioned as the 1B in the pecking order (1A's being Hot Springs and Jacuzzi, respectively) by the parent company.

In their own regards, they're fine brands.  I think you're getting a bit spa drunk as you're getting a ton of info and trying to sift through it all.  I say keep it simple.  If one just feels better and fits you better, that is likely the one for you.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

Wow, lots of info here for me to take in, thank you for taking the time.

[Hottubguy]

So we still haven’t wet tested the Caldera Niagara since my wife is out of town for work but I was at the dealer yesterday educating myself.

At this point I think it will come down to either a Sundance (Chelsea or Optima) or the Caldera (Niagara, Salina) due to dealer reputation and proximity. I do have a few newbie questions.

Both tout their water filtration system as being better than the other, Sundance uses Clearray (UV) and Caldera the Monarch Ozone system.
 
Is there, in fact, one that is better than the other?

Do they require additional costs to maintain?

Also, if the Caldera uses the Spafrog system for water care what does Sundance use? Regular chemicals? Wouldn’t there be more costs associated with the Spafrog?  Any advantages or disadvantages to either?

As always, thank you for answering these questions.

Sundance uses clearray with ozone.  Caldera uses spa frog with or without ozone.  I wouldn't let those factors decide what tub to get.  I have spa frog and it works fine but I would be fine using dichlor or nature 2

[Spatech_tuo]

So we still haven’t wet tested the Caldera Niagara since my wife is out of town for work but I was at the dealer yesterday educating myself.

At this point I think it will come down to either a Sundance (Chelsea or Optima) or the Caldera (Niagara, Salina) due to dealer reputation and proximity. I do have a few newbie questions.

Both tout their water filtration system as being better than the other, Sundance uses Clearray (UV) and Caldera the Monarch Ozone system.
 
Is there, in fact, one that is better than the other?

Do they require additional costs to maintain?

Also, if the Caldera uses the Spafrog system for water care what does Sundance use? Regular chemicals? Wouldn’t there be more costs associated with the Spafrog?  Any advantages or disadvantages to either?

As always, thank you for answering these questions.

The Clearray and UV ozone are fine but neither make much of a difference and its half dozen of one, six of the other. Both will filter fine. Spa frog just allows you to use bromine in an semi-automated manner but you can do that with a floater as well and I'd go with chlorine anyway.

Let the wet test be your guide. That and how you feel about each dealer, which deal seems better, ...

[simonsez1]

So we still haven’t wet tested the Caldera Niagara since my wife is out of town for work but I was at the dealer yesterday educating myself.

At this point I think it will come down to either a Sundance (Chelsea or Optima) or the Caldera (Niagara, Salina) due to dealer reputation and proximity. I do have a few newbie questions.

Both tout their water filtration system as being better than the other, Sundance uses Clearray (UV) and Caldera the Monarch Ozone system.
 
Is there, in fact, one that is better than the other?

Do they require additional costs to maintain?

Also, if the Caldera uses the Spafrog system for water care what does Sundance use? Regular chemicals? Wouldn’t there be more costs associated with the Spafrog?  Any advantages or disadvantages to either?

As always, thank you for answering these questions.

The Clearray and UV ozone are fine but neither make much of a difference and its half dozen of one, six of the other. Both will filter fine. Spa frog just allows you to use bromine in an semi-automated manner but you can do that with a floater as well and I'd go with chlorine anyway.

Let the wet test be your guide. That and how you feel about each dealer, which deal seems better, ...

Thank you for the feedback.  The more I research, the more my head starts to spin but I think you (and others) are right, ultimately I should just go with what feels best, the vibe I get from the dealer and pay a price that I think is fair for both parties.

Both of these hot tub manufacturers appear to put out a quality product.

[simonsez1]

I just wanted to update everyone since I found the exchange of information on this forum extremely useful in my quest for a hot tub.
We decided to go with the Sundance Chelsee, as mentioned previously we also liked the Salina but the Caldera dealer was less willing to negotiate and was also harder to get in touch with.  They are primary a swimming pool dealer and sell hot tubs “on the side” whereas the Sundance dealer strictly sells hot tubs.

For those who care, we paid $10,620 (or $12,000 all-in – yes 13% sales tax in Ontario  ), this included, delivery, setup, GFCI box, cover, steps and chemicals. Keep in mind that those are Canadian dollars, with today’s exchange rate, this would roughly equal to $8,175 US dollars.

We felt good about the purchase process and also felt the importance of buying from a reputable local dealer based on reading this forum.   I sincerely believe that this dealer will support us and be there if we have questions and/or issues with the tub down the road.

Thanks everybody for all your help!

[richierich]

Congratulations, the Chelsee is a solid choice , a large tub with strong jets and good filtration. Looks like you did real well on the price also.