replacing hot tub wiring question

[jmk1234]

Hey guys, new here and had a question to ask. I would search but i don't know how to phrase the question.

I just purchased a home that came with a hot tub. The manufacturer is called reflections spas. They no longer exist and the tub was built on or around 2005 because the manual i got from the home seller has a copyright of 2005. Age is a guestimate. But anyway the motors are about shot, they sound like a really loud can opener when turned on and the tub has been dry since fall according to the seller. I filled it and notices leaks coming from plumbing as well. So between the motors being out and the cover needing replacement i would rather replace the hot tub and get a warranty.

My question involves the new tub. The tub is connected by code to a 240 V 60AMP  breaker and then obviously dual poled to the house breaker.  My concern is being taken to the woodshed by a shady electrician trying to get me to replace items that aren't necessary so i want advice before making contact. I know a little about wiring as i have wired stuff in the past and good at electrical work but am not licensed and don't have deep knowledge. Just your basics like where to put the wires etc... 

I am replacing this tub with a Jacuzzi J-335. I want to know how hard it will be to have this new tub wired to the existing set-up. My guess is replacing the wires going from the tub to the spa disconnect breaker should be all that is needed. I wouldn't think much else would have to be done. From looking at the reflections manual it is a 3 wire setup. I haven't gotten a chance to disconnect the wiring to see the setup as its all inside the conduit. But I know from the salesman and from the jacuzzi manual that is a 3 wire setup 2 hots and a ground with no neutral.

I previously owned the J-325 which was a 110/220 convertible and used the 110 because house wasn't set up for 220.

Also i have time as my new tub won't be delivered until September

[Tman122]

Piece of cake. Just make sure all power to that system is off before looking, and disconnecting the old tub. Code may require an electrician to hook up the new one but that can also be avoided if you think your capable. But a licensed electrician will always be recommended. Don't just shut the breaker off. Test the system with a voltage tester before any work.

[jmk1234]

So I was able to look inside the control panel and I noticed a 3 wire setup which is good because the J335 is also a 3 wire setup. But the issue is it looks like its out of code. The wires are black WHITE and bare. I thought code was black red and bare(ground). 

As for testing for voltage, i have one of those voltage pens. I tested it where i knew there was juice( at the main panel) and it beeped and warned me. I did the same at the control panel on the tub where everything had been shut down and nothing so I am going to guess theres no juice going at all to the tub. So I am going to disconnect from the tub and cap the wires.

[Tman122]

So I was able to look inside the control panel and I noticed a 3 wire setup which is good because the J335 is also a 3 wire setup. But the issue is it looks like its out of code. The wires are black WHITE and bare. I thought code was black red and bare(ground). 

As for testing for voltage, i have one of those voltage pens. I tested it where i knew there was juice( at the main panel) and it beeped and warned me. I did the same at the control panel on the tub where everything had been shut down and nothing so I am going to guess theres no juice going at all to the tub. So I am going to disconnect from the tub and cap the wires.

It is common to have black, white and bare. It's simply because that's the wire they had. The dilemma comes because commonly in a 110v system black is load, white is common and bare is of course ground. In your case black is 110v load, white is 110V load, and bare is ground. Common is not required because there are no 110v components in the tub. Yes it's not correct per code but it will work fine. Get a voltage tester if your going to mess with wire yourself. And make sure you check your local codes for the current requirements. (disclaimer) I hate giving electrical advice on an internet forum. If you get hurt or fined it's on you.

[jmk1234]

1 more question. My salesman is on vacation, so won't be able to get a hold of him.

Do the tubs come with a power cord supplied with the tub ready to run or is that bought seperately? My last tub I ran off of 120 so it came with the plug ready to go. 

[Hottubguy]

1 more question. My salesman is on vacation, so won't be able to get a hold of him.

Do the tubs come with a power cord supplied with the tub ready to run or is that bought seperately? My last tub I ran off of 120 so it came with the plug ready to go.

240v tubs need to be hard wired so no cord

[SerjicalStrike]

On a correctly installed 110v system, black is hot, white is neutral, and bare/green is ground. 

On a 240v system, you will need 2 hots, a ground, and a neutral going to the GFCI and from there will just need 2 hots and a ground.  You will need to check with local codes for sizing of the wires.

[dlleno]

I've wired my two tubs and had the fortune of a very helpful city building code dept.   I agree this is a piece of cake.  The important details are

1.  Are the gfci breakers in the sub panel correctly sized for the spa requirements and wire sizes?  This has to be rigjt.  Is it a pair of 30s?  A 20 and a 30? 

2.  Are the wire sizes (including ground)  already in place correct for the current draw and length ?

3.  Is the sub panel in view from the tub.  Many local codes require this

You absolutely need to meet the most current code and that isx the electricians responsibility.   For everything he wants to replace ask why .

[jmk1234]

I've wired my two tubs and had the fortune of a very helpful city building code dept.   I agree this is a piece of cake.  The important details are

1.  Are the gfci breakers in the sub panel correctly sized for the spa requirements and wire sizes?  This has to be rigjt.  Is it a pair of 30s?  A 20 and a 30? 

2.  Are the wire sizes (including ground)  already in place correct for the current draw and length ?

3.  Is the sub panel in view from the tub.  Many local codes require this

You absolutely need to meet the most current code and that isx the electricians responsibility.   For everything he wants to replace ask why .

I am not an electrician. I am capable of connecting things that have already been pre-wired and will most likely be getting electricians help but am trying to keep from getting ripped off. I do have experience installing pre-wired items like ceiling fans and light fixtures that have the wires there so I will answer the best I can. 

1. My house is setup to 200 amp so it  has plenty of juice to support the hot tub.  I have a 60 amp set up reserved for the hot tub.   The tub I'm getting is capable of being set up for 40, 50 or 60 A.  The tub that is currently sitting there according to the seller was put in to code set up for 60 amps as the breaker bars say 60 on them.

2. My maintenance disconnect is visible but will have to move the new tub over 1 ft or so because i took the deck down that had the current tub in code because its currently not 5 ft from inside wall from the breaker but had a barrier because it was below permanent decking so it was code.  But the tub I am getting in the electrical requirements say it can be set up for 40 50 or 60 amps. This current tub and breaker is set for 60 amps or so that is what the breaker bar says 60.

[Tman122]

I've wired my two tubs and had the fortune of a very helpful city building code dept.   I agree this is a piece of cake.  The important details are

1.  Are the gfci breakers in the sub panel correctly sized for the spa requirements and wire sizes?  This has to be rigjt.  Is it a pair of 30s?  A 20 and a 30? 

2.  Are the wire sizes (including ground)  already in place correct for the current draw and length ?

3.  Is the sub panel in view from the tub.  Many local codes require this

You absolutely need to meet the most current code and that isx the electricians responsibility.   For everything he wants to replace ask why .

I am not an electrician. I am capable of connecting things that have already been pre-wired and will most likely be getting electricians help but am trying to keep from getting ripped off. I do have experience installing pre-wired items like ceiling fans and light fixtures that have the wires there so I will answer the best I can. 

1. My house is setup to 200 amp so it  has plenty of juice to support the hot tub.  I have a 60 amp set up reserved for the hot tub.   The tub I'm getting is capable of being set up for 40, 50 or 60 A.  The tub that is currently sitting there according to the seller was put in to code set up for 60 amps as the breaker bars say 60 on them.

2. My maintenance disconnect is visible but will have to move the new tub over 1 ft or so because i took the deck down that had the current tub in code because its currently not 5 ft from inside wall from the breaker but had a barrier because it was below permanent decking so it was code.  But the tub I am getting in the electrical requirements say it can be set up for 40 50 or 60 amps. This current tub and breaker is set for 60 amps or so that is what the breaker bar says 60.

If your tub will work on the 60a 3 wire system you said you have I would use that. Don't change anything. But yes move the disconnected more than 5 feet but within sight.

[jmk1234]

So, I finally got in touch with an electrician who was referred to me through the spa store i purchased from. Was having trouble finding one that knew hot tubs so i  figured the spa store would have the guy they use.  I still have time because my tub isn't due to be delivered until next month and will contact other pool stores in the area and ask them who they use and get estimates from there.  But I had a lengthy discussion with him and will get to that in a bit. This will probably be more expensive than i had hoped because I opened up the existing tubs control box and found that the wires are not in code, the colors are black white and bare. Supposed to be Black Red and Green. So I will need to replace at minimum them two wires unless there is something saying because those wires existed before the code changed like with 4 prong and 3 prong dryer outlets. 4 prong is the new standard but if the building currently existing constructon has 3 prong it is acceptable kind of thing.  I might have to get all new wires because I may have to move the tub over more so it will be more than 5 ft from the service disconnect as I don't want to move the service disconnect.

Back on point so the electrician said that his going rate for labor is 289 and then the cost of material. He didn't say what the hourly cost would be if they had to have an extended stay or it is for the duration of the visit which could be several hours. This is my first time having to deal with an electrician. The thing he said that I didn't want to hear is that he charges 5.00 a foot for the wires that I find to be very steep. I went on Homedepot.com and seen the exact wires I need (6 Gauge) THHN for 89c a foot.

The damn truth is and I say this now that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to wire a spa and run a bonding wire if you can read a diagram and not color blind to decipher wire color. But they throw that voiding a warranty if you do it yourself which is kind of heavy, I am making a hefty investment for the thing to not be covered. 

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Couple things...

The ends of the white wire can be wrapped with red electrical tape, and unless codes have recently changed on this, that would bring that wire up to code. The bare wire can NOT be wrapped with green tape and meet coed.

289 for labor? I suspect your state has a law that any work over $300 requires a contractors license ;-). Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing (if unlicensed), but could cause insurance issues down the road if something happens.

Go to home depot and but the green wire. Then have him pull out what's there, and pull back in the black, white (red tape on the ends) and your new green wire.

With regards to voiding the warranty...there's actually a federal law that in order to void the warranty, THEY have to prove that what was done caused the problem AND that it was done incorrectly.

[jmk1234]

Quoting and responding Dr Spa

Couple things...

The ends of the white wire can be wrapped with red electrical tape, and unless codes have recently changed on this, that would bring that wire up to code. The bare wire can NOT be wrapped with green tape and meet coed. Thats actually good to know, Thanks

289 for labor? I suspect your state has a law that any work over $300 requires a contractors license ;-). Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing (if unlicensed), but could cause insurance issues down the road if something happens. He stated during the conversation he was licensed. "I was referred to him through my spa dealer, so am going off a whim and saying that they wouldn't recommend someone unless he does reliable work. Because if he smurfs the job it could also fall back on he dealer who "recommended"

Go to home depot and but the green wire. Then have him pull out what's there, and pull back in the black, white (red tape on the ends) and your new green wire.  Didn't know I could buy my own supplies. I figured there would be some liability loophole to blame the electrician for shoddy equipment if say that wire is faulty somehow. Honestly this was the only thing i thought he could shade me with because he will make approximately 150 dollar profit just on the wires.

With regards to voiding the warranty...there's actually a federal law that in order to void the warranty, THEY have to prove that what was done caused the problem AND that it was done incorrectly.