Considering Hot Springs, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi - Help !

[Tman122]

You are flat wrong about this.  It's not a manifold just like any other hot tub. It's a patented and unique design.  The connections are done with a sonic weld rather than hand glued.  It is a different system that a lot people believe is better.

There is significantly less plumbing in a Bullfrog Spa, plain and simple.  Less plumbing absolutely does have an effect on the system.  All of this is fact.  I'm not trying to argue and fight about it, it's just that you always say something when Bullfrog is brought up.  You don't believe in the benefits of their system, but quite a few people do.  I personally know hundreds of people who have had other spas and now have Bullfrog.  They pretty much unanimously think it's a better system.  Referrals from these people are driving significant growth.  I see it every single day.

Here's the deal Sam and you should know this already. IF a BF salesman brings up a BS sales pitch that has absolutely nothing to do with the making the performance better. but state it as such, I am going to call you on it. Everyone here knows that I stay out of threads I know nothing about and interject where I do or to call BS. LESS PLUMBING MEANS NOTHING. Why sell it as 90% less plumbing when that's a lie? One of you guys stated that in this thread!! Less moving parts? What kind of cockomany thing is this?

When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD. Go ahead and call it a........ tadaaaaa "JetPac" but it's a manifold if you take the sales pitch out. Go ahead and say you connect the jets different but that doesn't mean, tadaaaaa "better" But it does mean different. A lot of tubs have the same thing, a diverter that can concentrate water flow to different seats through a manifold. BF does it differently, but not better. Drink less koolaid.

Now lets move on to the as stated by someone here that's "in the know" "less moving parts" I'd like to know which ones?

[Spatech_tuo]

So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.

Bullfrog may be growing.  Hot Spring #1 selling brand.

 #1 selling brand, with 4 different series of spa's 5 if you count Free-flow  under the HS brand might as well throw caldera in there as well, which they probably do and always have.  Bullfrog has 2 lines and I believe out sold HS in the last 2 years and counting.   

Bullfrog may be a growing brand but its hard to believe the Bullfrog A, R and X trio of brands that a Bullfrog dealer carries has gotten to the point of outselling the Hot Springs, Limelight, Hot Spot trio that a Hot Springs dealer sells just based on the size of their dealer networks. I'm not sure how any of this can be proven since numbers aren't given in this industry and of course many will point to the fact that the number of spas a manufacturer makes doesn't necessarily equate to how good their product is (see past performance of Thermospas, Cal, Master ... for proof of that).

[Water Boy]

I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! . I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.

[Racenut]

When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD.

By definition you are correct.  By design, you sound like a bullheaded idiot.  A tin can with some holes in it could be called a manifold...

[Tman122]

When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD.

By definition you are correct.  By design, you sound like a bullheaded idiot.  A tin can with some holes in it could be called a manifold...

Yep but somehow BF has made it a jet pac and now all of a sudden it's not a manifold next to your ear. Like I said any potential buyers need to take note of any extra noise when you put a tin can with holes in it next to your ears.

And as long as you started throwing insults you sound like a brainwashed cult of idiots that know nothing about plumbing except what a manufacturer told you or a salesman convinced you was correct and then you made your purchase decision because of it. Like sheep.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

All I wanna know is did you get a chance to wet test the A7L/R7L or any other tubs? 

[Hottubguy]

All I wanna know is did you get a chance to wet test the A7L/R7L or any other tubs? 

Right on!!!  90% less plumbing, jet packs, motto massage none of it means anything if you aren't comfortable in the tub. All the brands you listed are reputable

[sudden]

Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7.  We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us.  We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable. 

Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons.  First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470.  We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up.  I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering. 

Our experience proves that you have to wet test.  Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.

[Sam]

Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7.  We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us.  We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable. 

Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons.  First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470.  We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up.  I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering. 

Our experience proves that you have to wet test.  Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.

Congrats!  Great choice.  Thank you for sharing your experience.  Other potential buyers need to hear from actual customers to balance out the industry guy stuff.

[Water Boy]

Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7.  We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us.  We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable. 

Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons.  First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470.  We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up.  I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering. 

Our experience proves that you have to wet test.  Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.

Congrats on your new spa! You really did you homework! Thanks for sharing your reviews of your wet tests.

[Tman122]

This is a good example of doing research and thinking about what is important in a tub for you, and that that, is way more important than any sales jargon to try and convince you one design/gimmick is better than another. Whatever the, "gimmick" for lack of a better word, sales job is to tell you why they think theirs is better. But that is a recipe for embellishment and a concealed carry license to embellish is issued. Asking other/competing dealers to say why theirs is better is an open easy target for another round of embellishment by licensed carriers. BUYERS BEWARE. Sales be careful when you run across a skilled/educated purchaser.

All buyers should do this first to take out any skewed data on sales or popularity. But this will likely never happen for 50% or more of buyers. Tainted sales data. Shame on you HOT TUB INDUSTRY. But good job. A nice luxury item that will likely not fade much over the next some ott years. Stay in the game, build a tub that is reasonably energy efficient, comfortable with many molds and design/performance options, that lasts for 15-20 years. People will buy them and a ton will be easy sales. But more and more of us will have skill and education when we purchase anything. Especially as the value increases.

[YourSnyderMan]

Congratulations, sudden!  Sounds like you got a great tub at a great price.  You mentioned you had the opportunity to wet test a J-480.  How was your experience with the J-480?  J-480 is a "finalist" tub, along with J-375 and Sundance Maxxus, but I'm having a hard time deciding and haven't been able to wet test a J-480.  I'm curious what you liked and what you did not like about the J-480.  In particular, how was the lounger?  Do you feel the J-480 lounger would be comfortable for someone who is 6'0" tall?  Any insight you can share about your impressions of the J-480 are very much appreciated.  Thanks a million!  Enjoy that hot tub!!

[Tman122]

I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! . I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.

WB are you still with Arctic? Or was it Blue Falls?

They had/have a good thing going also, Solid product. Embellished a bit sometimes like the others but a solid tub. They still sell them in Minnesota so........crappy brands don't last here. (Compliment)

[Water Boy]

I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! . I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.

WB are you still with Arctic? Or was it Blue Falls?

They had/have a good thing going also, Solid product. Embellished a bit sometimes like the others but a solid tub. They still sell them in Minnesota so........crappy brands don't last here. (Compliment)

Yep, still selling Arctic & Coyote Spas, which are made by Blue Falls manufacturing. We have been selling Arctic Spas since early 2000's, and I started in 2002. We've had good luck with them. Thanks for the compliment!

[sudden]

Congratulations, sudden!  Sounds like you got a great tub at a great price.  You mentioned you had the opportunity to wet test a J-480.  How was your experience with the J-480?  J-480 is a "finalist" tub, along with J-375 and Sundance Maxxus, but I'm having a hard time deciding and haven't been able to wet test a J-480.  I'm curious what you liked and what you did not like about the J-480.  In particular, how was the lounger?  Do you feel the J-480 lounger would be comfortable for someone who is 6'0" tall?  Any insight you can share about your impressions of the J-480 are very much appreciated.  Thanks a million!  Enjoy that hot tub!!

The J-480 was a great tub.  We were sold on the foot dome and all of the seats were comfortable with powerful jets.  I had a lounger in my prior tub (Hot Springs Sovereign) and was planning on getting another.  But, I could justify a $2K difference between the two floor models just to get the lounger.  I'm only 5'8" and felt just as comfortable in one of the corner seats with the foot dome.  In my view, the  Jacuzzi 400 series tubs were superior to the 300 series, especially since the floor model prices were essentially the same as the price for a wrapped 300 series tub.  Although I tested the Sundance Optima rather than the Maxxus, I think they have the same foot dome and I much preferred the Jacuzzi to the Sundance