Considering Hot Springs, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi - Help !

[sudden]

Had a 2004 Sovereign which my daughter is now enjoying.  Now that there's only my wife and I, I've looked at smaller tubs but I can't see getting a 2-3 person tub and since I really enjoyed the lounge seat in my original Sovereign, I'm looking at bigger tubs (5-6 persons) with lounge seat.  I'm considering another Sovereign ($10,699), Bullfrog A7L ($11,599), Bullfrog R7L ($8999), and a Sundance Marin ($11,000) or Sundance Hamilton ($10,000).  I can also go up to a 2014 Jacuzzi 470 floor model ($11,000).Haven't had a chance to wet test yet and haven't begun negotiating beyond initial prices which all All include cover, piston lifter, steps, delivery.  Bullfrog promotes fewer holes, less plumbing and better insulation - should that be a factor in my decision?  Both Hot Springs and Bullfrog use composite substructure, although Bullfrog has solid bottom and Hot Springs doesn't appear to be solid.  While solid base should keep out moisture better, it will also keep it in if there's a leak.  I like the idea of being able to choose my jets with the Bullfrog jet pak but I don't see myself necessarily switching them around.  So is this system and how it's structured a beneficial feature or a gimmick?  I like the design of the Sundance tubs, their Microstream filtration and EZ access panel but do I get more bang for my buck with Jacuzzi?
 
Is there anything to differentiate these tubs other than personal preference from sitting and wet testing?  Also, if color isn't a deal breaker, is it worth focusing on floor models, what should I be concerned about in choosing one, and what should I expect in terms of saving for choosing a floor model vs. one that's wrapped or on its way to the dealer?

[Tman122]

I wouldn't let any manufacturers "gimmick" steer me. I'd find what  was comfortable sitting in and dealing with.

[Hottubguy]

Wet test, wet test, wet test. They are all great ma ufacturers pick the one you like the best and focus in on that

[BullFrogSpasMN]

for a true apples to apples you may want to look at the Vanguard or Aria from Hot Spring which are both 2 pump tubs like the others on your list...my advice would be to go in and wet test the A7L or R7L if that is available...17 varieties of massage that you get to choose from, 90% less plumbing, less moving parts to fail and built in the USA...just go give it a try for yourself..spend a day wet testing and you'll know way more about you're personal likes/dislikes and you can narrow down your choices quickly

[SoCal Monkey]

This wouldn't be much help for most of the specific tubs you listed, but I posted long reviews/notes after wet testing several high-end models that seem to be in the range you're looking at. I ended up getting a Jacuzzi J-575.  "Best" is always subjective, of course, but for me, it came down to liking Jacuzzi's jets better than anyone else's.

Here's the thread: http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,18911.0.html

[Tman122]

90% less plumbing, less moving parts to fail

BS

How many less moving parts? Which ones? Took you guys a long time to give up on the 90% less plumbing. That's non fact. 90% less than some unknown brand with who knows how many pumps and jets. If you don't count the plumbing inside the jet pacs.

[Sam]

Here we go with tman and his irrational dismissal of Bullfrog as gimmcky, without even really knowing what he is talking about.  I won't get sucked into it other than the say that there is no plumbing inside with the jetpaks.  Your experience with Bullfrog is outdated.  They are very different than they were when you interacted with them years ago.  Also, don't get hung up on 90%.  There is significantly less plumbing than a hot tub with a similar amount of jets.  There are significantly less holes drilled in the shell.  If you don't see the benefits to that, ok.  Other people do.

All of that aside.  It is the only hot tub in the world that allows the customer to decide exactly what jets they want and in what seat to put it.  If they change their mind, no big deal.  It's the only hot tub that will let you change the jets even after your purchase.  Again, if you don't see the benefit to that, fine.  A lot of people do, as evidenced by their huge growth from year to year.  Bullfrog is really taking the industry by storm.

[Tman122]

Here we go with tman and his irrational dismissal of Bullfrog as gimmcky, without even really knowing what he is talking about.  I won't get sucked into it other than the say that there is no plumbing inside with the jetpaks.  Your experience with Bullfrog is outdated.  They are very different than they were when you interacted with them years ago.  Also, don't get hung up on 90%.  There is significantly less plumbing than a hot tub with a similar amount of jets.  There are significantly less holes drilled in the shell.  If you don't see the benefits to that, ok.  Other people do.

All of that aside.  It is the only hot tub in the world that allows the customer to decide exactly what jets they want and in what seat to put it.  If they change their mind, no big deal.  It's the only hot tub that will let you change the jets even after your purchase.  Again, if you don't see the benefit to that, fine.  A lot of people do, as evidenced by their huge growth from year to year.  Bullfrog is really taking the industry by storm.

Plumbing moves water. If there's no plumbing in a jet pac how does it move water? Nothing on the other question huh Sam? How many and which moving parts does it have that is less than a typical tub? The only reason I brought up the 90% less plumbing thing is because BF keeps doing it to deceive people. Now they have added to their pitch "less moving parts" Which ones?

Get real BF sales people.

And also the quantity of plumbing has absolutely NOTHING to do with hydrotherapy feel.

Who's irrational? And I never called it gimmicky. The OP did. Read a little closer before you blow on the only truth on the subject.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back.    I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there.  BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.   

[Tman122]

Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back.    I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there.  BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.   

If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.

All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back.    I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there.  BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.   

If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.

All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.

   You know better than that and what it is, all those manifolds and divertors?  Really, you think they have conventional manifolds and divertors like in a HS or Jacuzzi?  I thought you might actually like to see it, but it's not worth my time to do it now since you know all about it and what it looks like.

[Tman122]

Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back.    I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there.  BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.   

If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.

All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.

   You know better than that and what it is, all those manifolds and divertors?  Really, you think they have conventional manifolds and divertors like in a HS or Jacuzzi?  I thought you might actually like to see it, but it's not worth my time to do it now since you know all about it and what it looks like.

It's easy with this google thing to see what it looks like. Yes, a manifold splits the flow of water from one big path to many smaller paths. That is 100% what the inside of a jet pac does. Manifold, just like any other tub. Just closer to your ears.

[Sam]

You are flat wrong about this.  It's not a manifold just like any other hot tub. It's a patented and unique design.  The connections are done with a sonic weld rather than hand glued.  It is a different system that a lot people believe is better.

There is significantly less plumbing in a Bullfrog Spa, plain and simple.  Less plumbing absolutely does have an effect on the system.  All of this is fact.  I'm not trying to argue and fight about it, it's just that you always say something when Bullfrog is brought up.  You don't believe in the benefits of their system, but quite a few people do.  I personally know hundreds of people who have had other spas and now have Bullfrog.  They pretty much unanimously think it's a better system.  Referrals from these people are driving significant growth.  I see it every single day.

[hottubdan]

So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.

Bullfrog may be growing.  Hot Spring #1 selling brand.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.

Bullfrog may be growing.  Hot Spring #1 selling brand.

 #1 selling brand, with 4 different series of spa's 5 if you count Free-flow  under the HS brand might as well throw caldera in there as well, which they probably do and always have.  Bullfrog has 2 lines and I believe out sold HS in the last 2 years and counting.