Any recent opinions on Bullfrog Spas?

[Hottubguy]

My take on bullfrog. 5 years ago I thought they were terrible. I just saw them and went through as best I could at the Vegas show about 5 months ago. They are a lot sharper looking and much better marketed now. They fixed the problem of the slime buildup by drilling some holes for circulation around the jet packs. I was impressed by them. Seems like in my area it's all jacuzzi guys selling them now which makes sense because I know a ton of old jacuzzi reps work there now. I don't necessarily think they are better then Watkins brands, Marquis or jacuzzi/sundance but I think they have a neat story and  are very well made. I'd put them right there with those guys and would by one of those before a jacuzzi/sundance as the quality control on those tubs aren't what they used to be. I also like competing with them because there dealers seem to get good margins unlike some of my other competitors

[Hottubguy]

Tman has always had a weird thing with Bullfrog.  In the end, they have significantly less plumbing than a comparable spa.  They have less holes drilled in the shell.  They allow you to decide what jets you want and in what seat to put them.  You can change them whenever you want.  When they come out with a new pack, you can upgrade your old hot tub.  JetPaks are patented and you cannot copy them. 


This is all verifiable fact and not sales BS.

I thought patents only lasted 7 years?

[Compatico]

I thought patents only lasted 7 years?

US Patents are typically good for 20 years depending on the type of patent. For design patents it was 14 years until recently where it was changed to 15 years. This is from the date of first application, not the date the patent is filed. So assuming 20 years for the Jetpak filed in 2007 (patent 8,661,576), it's protected until 2027. After that, if no term extension is given the patent goes into public domain and anyone can make copies.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 The thing with patents is what it is.  Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS.  No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog.  Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it.  Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?

 I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of? 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

The thing with patents is what it is.  Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS.  No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog.  Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it.  Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?

 I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?

pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?

[Hottubguy]

The thing with patents is what it is.  Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS.  No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog.  Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it.  Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?

 I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?

pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?

More similar to Clearwater I believe

[Tman122]

The thing with patents is what it is.  Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS.  No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog.  Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it.  Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?

 I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?

pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?

Arctic uses spray foam on the inside of the cabinet walls. Great concept if spray foam on the shell/plumbing scares you. Their claim of heating without a heater is false. Put's your pumps and electronics in a heated and even super heated environment in summer, which effects longevity. So venting is required for cooling and to prevent heat creep. But more important their molds seemed confining to me.

Maxx uses a sloppy rendition. No need for venting because there are gaps and openings everywhere.

[Compatico]

Arctic uses spray foam on the inside of the cabinet walls.

The Arctic tub we had used hard foam insulation panels lining the cabinet and base with heat reflective aluminum coating. Several brands do the same thing.

Their claim of heating without a heater is false. Put's your pumps and electronics in a heated and even super heated environment in summer, which effects longevity. So venting is required for cooling and to prevent heat creep.

I believe their claim of heating without a heater referred to hot climate areas where the pumps could generate enough heat to help maintain water temp without the heater being used much. The wording is key...they didn't claim you don't need a heater, only that the tub could maintain temp without the heater coming on when the jet pumps were running on a hot day. Obviously in cold climates like winter in the northern States and Canada, this doesn't fly at all. But during the summer at 90'F days I know the heater didn't kick in much.

But more important their molds seemed confining to me.

Everyone is different and so are tubs. 

And sometimes peoples' experiences affect future buying decisions. This time round it won't be an Arctic tub simply because they don't offer one that suits our needs. Same goes for Hydropool, Beachcomber, and several others we crossed off the list as they didn't offer what we want. Nothing wrong with the tubs, just features/design didn't suit.

[Tman122]

I believe their claim of heating without a heater referred to hot climate areas where the pumps could generate enough heat to help maintain water temp without the heater being used much. The wording is key...they didn't claim you don't need a heater, only that the tub could maintain temp without the heater coming on when the jet pumps were running on a hot day. Obviously in cold climates like winter in the northern States and Canada, this doesn't fly at all. But during the summer at 90'F days I know the heater didn't kick in much.

There was no mention of the 20 hours per day filtering isn't required. If it's cold outside the heater will work just as much during the 20 hours (majority) of non filtration time everyday. To me the sales BS read as if the heater wouldn't be needed because the warmth generated from the jet pump during filtration would be sufficient to heat the water. That's how it was pushed here on this board. I called BS on it.

[FL Person]

I have a Bullfrog R6 on order.  Should be ready for it in the next few weeks.  This will be my first spa.  I wet tested and did research.  These spas clearly have less plumbing than traditional designs and have fewer hull penetrations.  Looking forward to my new spa.

FL Person

[Tman122]

I have a Bullfrog R6 on order.  Should be ready for it in the next few weeks.  This will be my first spa.  I wet tested and did research.  These spas clearly have less plumbing than traditional designs and have fewer hull penetrations.  Looking forward to my new spa.

FL Person

Welcome to spatopia.......

[flipflopper]

Well, I bought a used Sundance instead of a new Bullfrog (for details, check out the "Pics of My New Hot Tub" section of the forum).

[beachgrad]

This is probably a little late for a reply, but.....  I LOVE my bullfrog spa.  It's predecessor was one of the major names mentioned above that had constant little leaks and cost a fortune to heat (and I live in a fairly mild climate).  My Bullfrog is probably ten years or so old, I think it's a model 451 (4 jetpacks, 5 total seats, one pump).  I will admit I had to replace the circuit board a couple years ago but that has been it for repairs.  Plus the parts guy walked me through the troubleshooting and replacing the part only took me a few minutes.  What do I love.  It is efficient, sure, but I love the jetpacks.  I can pick the ones I want and I can move them from location to location. I also really like how the plumbing is designed.  Far fewer opportunities for leaks and the plumbing is fairly accessible if a leak does occur (which hasn't happened).  What would I do different if I were buying a new one.  I'd buy a unit with two pumps.  Mine only has one and will not run everything at full strength at one time.  Since their are usually only one or two in the tub at a time I just turn off the nozzles on the jetpacks we aren't using, so I have a workaround, but a second pump would be great.

[Tummy54]

I have an A7, just over a year old.  Mechanically its been good, but against my better judgement we got the stereo system. In just over a year and half of owning the A7, I have had all the speakers replaced and 1/2 are broke again.
Some are louder than others, one is blown and crackling.  I just had the service department here last week to fix one and now 2 others are broke.
I plan on contacting Bullfrog directly, this is defect issue. Unless there are others out there experiencing similar issues.

[Hottubguy]

I have an A7, just over a year old.  Mechanically its been good, but against my better judgement we got the stereo system. In just over a year and half of owning the A7, I have had all the speakers replaced and 1/2 are broke again.
Some are louder than others, one is blown and crackling.  I just had the service department here last week to fix one and now 2 others are broke.
I plan on contacting Bullfrog directly, this is defect issue. Unless there are others out there experiencing similar issues.

Usually the first thing to go on a hot tub is the stereo. Speakers and water don't mix well together. Are they still under warranty?