Any recent opinions on Bullfrog Spas?

[Tman122]

Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.

Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it.  How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?

1

How many have you tried?

[Racenut]

Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.

Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it.  How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?

1

How many have you tried?

Was it the new design or the old design?  Could you actually hear a discernible noise from the jetpacks?

For me.. 3 different tubs, 1 old design, 2 different new ones, one of which I own.  And have never noticed noise like that.

[Tman122]

Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.

Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it.  How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?

1

How many have you tried?

Was it the new design or the old design?  Could you actually hear a discernible noise from the jetpacks?

For me.. 3 different tubs, 1 old design, 2 different new ones, one of which I own.  And have never noticed noise like that.

New design, I will hold my opinion on the noise created by moving the manifolds/fluid distribution closer to your ears. Most customers, like you, it may not matter.

This board is for information and not sales. Any company that comes here and throws BS sales rhetoric should get corrected. Bullfrog just happens to be the most recent. Most dealers here are pretty good. Listing the potential positives should also be followed by the potential negatives. People are passionate. Owners and dealers alike.

If you removed the insulation (might not be much to remove) from a 120 jet 4 pump Master Spa and set it side by side with a two pump BF and didn't count the water channels/plumbing inside the BF jet pacs you could potentially come up with 90% less plumbing. But because it has 2 less pumps and a bunch less jets it should have 50% less plumbing. That's deceiving. Flip over a 40 jet Marquis Euphoria and tell me BF has 90% less plumbing. Or do what BF does and just imply what they are showing you is them compared to all other spas. And........maybe 90% less plumbing means moving less water, negatively impacting the hydrotherapy? This can be spun a lot of different ways.

My point is, if stuff like that is going to be throw into the mix lets look at it closely. That's why we are here to help potential buyers. Not sell tubs. Your a BF owner Racenut. I trust your opinion of how YOUR tub works for YOU. But lets get the sales BS out of our advice for our posters.

No need to thank me.

[Racenut]

You're really hung up on that 90% thing... I believe the ads claim "UP TO" 90%... which means in the most extreme case.  I don't think anyone at Bullfrog has ever claimed that it's 90% less than every tub made.  This is marketing 101 stuff that is done by nearly every company in every industry. They put their best foot forward against the worst of their competition.  But if that's the drum/dead horse you want to beat, then I guess that's your thing. But the fact is, that the BF design does result in less plumbing than any other design, and especially less plumbing where leaks present a real problem.  For a consumer like me, who has spent way too much time digging through foam fixing leaks, this is a big deal to me.  It doesn't guarantee no leaks, but it does minimize risk and that's a big plus to me.  And for your "maybe it moves less water"...  I suppose in a bad design it could restrict flow, but that's not the case here and you know it.

You give lots of good info for users here and I appreciate and respect your input here.  As a result, I think your comments tend to hold a bit more weight than most users here.  It just seems that you have a bone to pick with Bullfrog and make sure to plant seeds of doubt where ever you can.  I know BF isn't going to be everyone's top choice, especially if someone's local BF dealer isn't so great...  But it seems you're trying to scare people away from them due to your misinterpretation of a sales brochure.  But at the end of the day, I agree with you in that the wet test should be the final measure.  I'd just hate to see someone not even give the BF a chance due to something they read on the internet. 

I still have some of the Bullfrog Kool-Aid... maybe you should try some with vodka.  It's not bad

[meriflower]

I think the point is there is less holes drilled in the shell on a BF compared to others.  Other spas drill the holes in the shell for the various jets vs BF, the jetpak has the holes for the jets and not the shell.  So the "plumbing" is in the inside of the spa shell and not the outside.  If you want to count what's in the jetpak go ahead.  Of course there are still holes drilled in the shell for a BF but it is less than others.

A Marquis Euphoria has 58 jets not 40. 

[Tman122]

But it seems you're trying to scare people away from them due to your misinterpretation of a sales brochure.  But at the end of the day, I agree with you in that the wet test should be the final measure.  I'd just hate to see someone not even give the BF a chance due to something they read on the internet. 

Ummmmmmm wait........isn't that what an advertised sales brochure from BF does? It's OK for them to do it but not me? I'd hate to see someone not give any other brands a try because of that sales BS.

I'm not sure how drilling the right amount of holes in the shell for the proper hydrotherapy feel means anything but hey......

[flipflopper]

Sorry to go radio silence on here. It was a busy weekend. First, I wet tested the hot tubs and then I started running numbers and scouring Craigslist.
I made an offer on a 2013 Sundance Cameo 880 that I could see up and running and came to a fantastic arrangement with the seller on price and extras. I'm just waiting on the movers now and then it's permit time followed by installation and electrical.

I still appreciate all the input about Bullfrogs. Now that we'll be wired and set up for a tub, it would make getting a new one quite a bit more affordable, if that makes any sense. It's amazing how all the prices add up not just in the store but with the foundation, electrical, and permits.

[Tman122]

That's a powerful tub and quiet. You will like it.

Need any trouble shooting help let us know. Parts are easily accessible.

I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to blow holes in BF. I have said it before, they make a fine tub. But if the design was that good you could count on copying, and don't give me the "it's patented" thing. If patents could stop other similar designs in products we wouldn't have choices in any products. It wouldn't matter what brand it was. If you sling shit here you get called on it, plain and simple. There are other dealers and owners here who slung it long before any of you BF dealers/owners did with other brands. They got the same from me and several others members here. People come here to get un-biased information. Not the same stuff and same brochures they heard/saw at the dealer. This is my board dammit!!! No really I have been warned here before by the moderator team because of some vigorous discussions for a lot of years. I called it constructive conflict, they called it mean. We all learn. I'm honored that I am respected here. But I am falling behind. The industry is getting out of site as I zero in on retirement. Sighhhhhhhh..........But I will always recognize BS. I'm crabby cause I don't have a tub right now.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Maybe you missed the heated post from me against some certain HS sales people in the past one of which sells Bullfrog now?

   The thing with Bullfrog is and I sold against them for a long time and they were easily destroyed in the sales presentation.  With the changes and improvements they have done, and granted you wouldn't know this other than the increased amount of Bullfrog traffic here. They have exploded in to the market place in the last two years.  I talked with our rep on Friday and he set up 8 dealers in the last month or so. Many of which were long time Jacuzzi/Sundance dealers.    They are taking floor space and selling spa's and it's not because of the " up to 90%" less plumbing pitch.  They are an easy spa to sell and people do like the features and customization they offer.  They are not louder than any other spa, there warranty is on par if not better than many, and so far their customer service is batting a thousand with me and any issue that has come up.  Far better than Jacuzzi had been in the last about 4 years with whom we sold spas with for 15 years.   They were not happy with us bringing Bullfrog on in the slightest, and my previous comments in this post reflect that.   Jerry Paisley (Ex President of Jacuzzi and Sundance spas) Has done a very good job of bringing Bullfrog to the front of the line.

[Compatico]

Sorry to go radio silence on here. It was a busy weekend. First, I wet tested the hot tubs and then I started running numbers and scouring Craigslist.
I made an offer on a 2013 Sundance Cameo 880 that I could see up and running and came to a fantastic arrangement with the seller on price and extras. I'm just waiting on the movers now and then it's permit time followed by installation and electrical.
I still appreciate all the input about Bullfrogs. Now that we'll be wired and set up for a tub, it would make getting a new one quite a bit more affordable, if that makes any sense. It's amazing how all the prices add up not just in the store but with the foundation, electrical, and permits.

Glad to hear you made a decision...and yet buying a hot tub is like buying a home, you need to budget to all the extra fees to get the deal done.
Enjoy your tub!

[Compatico]

I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to blow holes in BF. I have said it before, they make a fine tub. But if the design was that good you could count on copying,

I believe the jetpak design is patented which means no one can copy them without a lawsuit. Once the patent runs out (14 years from patent date) then anyone can make a similar design without risk of a lawsuit. That's probably when you'll see others copying the jetpak idea which I think is a good one. One of my biggest beefs with hot tubs is that you get what you get. With Bullfrog you can get what you want (within the limits of the jetpak choices).

I'm crabby cause I don't have a tub right now.

That I understand completely. We've been without a tub for a while and we really miss it...
 

[Sam]

Tman has always had a weird thing with Bullfrog.  In the end, they have significantly less plumbing than a comparable spa.  They have less holes drilled in the shell.  They allow you to decide what jets you want and in what seat to put them.  You can change them whenever you want.  When they come out with a new pack, you can upgrade your old hot tub.  JetPaks are patented and you cannot copy them. 


This is all verifiable fact and not sales BS. 

[The Wizard of Spas]

I guess its all a matter of opinion.  There are many valid points made in favor of and against Bullfrog.  It seems that there will not be a consensus on the matter at hand.  I hope we can all move forward now and let this thread cool off for a while and get back to answering questions vs campaigning. 

[Spatech_tuo]

I'll refrain after all.

[Tman122]

I guess I got the "there patented" speech anyway......anyone wana bet? Talk to a patent lawyer. You would be surprised how little difference you need to go around patent laws. And the next guy will patent them as better, and the next, and the next. But that's not going to happen.