New User - Looking for info on pricing

[HawkeyeState08]

Hello Everybody -

I am a new user and first time poster to the forum.  I am in the early stages of my search for a hot tub and am looking for some general information on different brands and pricing.  The most frustrating thing for me early in the search process has been the difficulty of finding reliable pricing.  From looking around online and reading some posts here, it sounds like you can't find out what the true price is until you have the checkbook out and are ready to haggle with a dealer.  Does anyone have any links or advice on how to find reliable pricing?

As far as what I am in the market for - something in the 5-6 person range, reliable, low-maintenance.  We are a younger couple, so it is mostly for relaxation with my wife and occasional social gatherings.  I am most likely looking to purchase from a local dealer as it sounds like I am just asking for trouble to buy from low-end box store.  My local options are Jacuzzi, Caldera, Marquis, Hot Springs, Sundance, and Maax.  I am not all that interested in the bells and whistles, lights, waterfalls, etc.  The most important factors for me are reliability, cost-to-own, and low-maintenance.  I've visited a Hot Springs and Sundance dealer and liked the Flair and Hamilton layouts.  The hot springs dealer pushed a 2015 Flair floor model pretty hard as it was the last one they had left.  He gave me an out the door price of $10,070 which includes cover lift, ozonator, steps, 220v sub panel, watercare kit, delivery, and tax.  I've tried to find posts on here for what others have paid for a Flair, but most have been 2014 or older.  Most of those posts were around $8500.  Was there some big change between the 2015 Flair and older models or am I not getting a good price?

I appreciate any feedback, information, and advice anyone has!

[The Wizard of Spas]

For the most part you are looking at the higher-end of the spa spectrum, which is good.  I do not sell any of these units but I have sold against them for almost 2 decades.  I'll let others champion their brand.  But you are in the right area in terms of quality brands.

I am likely in the minority by saying this, but I feel that there is no such thing as low maintenance.  You can buy a $4000 tub or a $15000 tub and if you do not properly balance water chemistry and maintain filters, etc, they'll both fall apart on you sooner than expected.  And water chemistry is the most important aspect and is 100% based on your own personal usage habits.  This isn't to say that you're going to be dealing with the tub every day for an hour.  But water chemistry transcends not only brands, but hot tubs, pools, etc.

Additionally, "cost-to-run" is a rather vague concept.  I apply this to the industry and not you, the client.  As hot button topics like efficiency creep into the industry, monthly numbers pertaining to electricity get tossed around.  However, the cost to run also depends on the weather outside, the temperature you keep your tub at, how often its used, how long its used, are you using it ever on ECONOMY mode, how long do you have your timer set for (most are pre-programmed for 2 hrs but did you kick it up higher?), etc.  Yes- Some brands champion their insulation but in reality they're all fairly close in what they have to offer when it comes to savings.  All things being equal, one brand may say they are $X/month, and another may be lower.  Buy we are usually talking w/in $5 or less- Is that really going to be the reason you pick one brand over the other?  Additionally, all brands don't make their own motors, etc.  And Balboa, Waterway, etc have gotten better and more efficient thru the years thru no effort on the spa manufacturers.  Thus I believe this is a natural progression of our industry regardless of the various brands.

What will likely be of more/most importance is the feel of the tub (physically:  How do you fit in it?  Is that aspect comfortable?) and if you like the feel of the jets when you wet test.  That should be roughly half the equation.  The other half is how reputable is the dealer?  Have they had their tub line for more than 5 years?  Do they provide service?  Do they have good reviews?  etc. 

Some people prefer American-made and that may have some bearing on how you proceed.  Others may like a look of a tub, or a price point, or jet layouts, etc.  These are all personal opinions that only you two can answer.  So start with the feel of the tub and the wet test, the quality of the dealer, and then drop down to the tub size, lounger vs no lounge and go from there.

I hope this helps.  And I wasn't trying to be an Negative Nelly.  I understand your specific concerns.  I just wanted to guide you towards things that may be more important in the long run.  And there are plenty who visit this forum who can speak to the specifics of each brand you are looking at.

Good luck moving forward. 

[HawkeyeState08]

Thanks for the feedback!  I completely understand what you are saying wet test and quality of dealer being two of the most important factors.  We will definitely wet test and weight that heavily into our decision, but I guess I was trying to come armed with as much information as possible before we got to that point. 

As far as the "cost-to-own" idea, I also agree that $5/month is definitely not a deciding factor between brands.  I was not aware that the maintenance costs between brands were so similar.  By cost-to-own I was not just referring to energy efficiency but chemicals, filters, etc.  So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying there is very little difference in all of these costs between brands?

Thanks again!

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Flair pricing is fair, its a 9-10k spa...just curious where are you in Iowa? are you shopping the Des Moines area?

[HawkeyeState08]

Yes, Des Moines area.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Yes, Des Moines area.

Good to know...Of course you have to like the spa but I can guarantee you the local Hot Spring dealer will take care of you down there.  You may already be working closely with someone at that store, if not, ask for Les...great guy who will take care of you.

[HawkeyeState08]

Les is who I am working with.  Have had a great experience so far.

[The Wizard of Spas]

Correct Hawkeye:  Water chemistry transcends brands, and is the same for hot tubs and pools, etc.  You can use any sort of sanitation system in a hot tub.  And your pH and alkalinity are still extremely important.  That will not affect which brand you choose.  Filtration:  I have never, ever been a huge fan of overselling filtration.  If you have even the most basic of paper filters you will be fine.  I'll explain...

Yes- There are filters that can collect a finer micron of particles.  But two things:  1.  Filtration (along with ozone) are only assistants to water chemistry.  If your water is green or cloudy- its water chemistry that is going to correct the problem and 2. Every time i've been pitched a filter system from the manufacturer, the first thing they say is "This is a filter that has a story, and its a product you can up-sell, and keep the customer coming back to you and not your competition." Only after that is stated, do they go into the actual benefits of the product.  Seems like the priorities are backwards.

Due to these points, and the points mentioned on my previous post, I personally do not feel there is a big difference between the brands when it comes to efficiency, filtration, maintenance, etc.  After the comfort/seating configuration and the dealer,  it comes down to (in no particular order) quality of parts (like, say, Balboa vs. Gecko, Waterway vs CMP, et al), construction (frame components,  quality of shell), flow rate/quality of plumbing (does your plumbing deliver water in the most efficient manner?), and so on, so forth.

And do not lose sight on the fact that you are looking at high-end brands, for the most part.  If I was a, for instance, the Marquis dealer and I lost your sale to the Sundance dealer, I'd not be able to tell you in good faith that you had made a poor decision.

Does this make sense?  I hope it helps.  Good luck moving forward.

[HawkeyeState08]

That makes perfect sense.  I've had a couple people personally recommend Hot Springs, but all of the other brands I listed are, essentially, foreign to me.  It actually makes this whole process seem a little less daunting.  Thanks again!

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Les is who I am working with.  Have had a great experience so far.

good...he'll shoot you straight, if he's quoting you bottom line pricing then its truly his bottom line, he doesn't blow smoke at all or sugar coat anything, I've worked with him in the past and he's one of the "good guys" in this industry.  Its also a family owned business that's been there for 25+ years so they'll take care of you on the service end of things...good luck

[rspray]

We just bought a 2015 Flair (up/running last Friday!), and sound very similar in our likes/dislikes e.g. trusted brand, lowish maintenance, long warranty and not wowed by bells/whistles.  I know pricing varies by region, but I always kind of thought here in the Northeast would be more expensive than elsewhere - we got it delivered, ozone installed, cover and Covermate I, subpanel, steps, chemicals for $7495 + tax.  Actually I had another place quote $7495 including tax and choice of color combo, but I trusted the service more from our dealer.

[sldillon]

If I could have bought the Flair for 7500 I would have for sure, about 9500 here.

I think you got a great deal
Instead I bought an an Artesian South Seas 748L for 6100