High PH with new water ?

[jbequer]

I just drained and refilled my hot tub, when testing PH , It is 8.5.
Other times that I have refilled, the PH was 7.4.

Why the drastic increase in the PH level?

I added 6 Tbs of PH decrease and 2 Tbs of Dichlor as an initial shock .

How long before I test the water again?

 I know it takes a while for the PH to go down, but what is the best way to go about testing after this?

[hottubdan]

What is your Total Alkalinity?  Need to get it right before pH.

[jbequer]

I have never checked Alkalinity in my tub and have always had perfect water. I normally just check Ph and Chlorine, adjust both and get great water.
Checking Alkalinity is really not needed in an above ground hot tubs, unless it's a built inground spa it's not a big deal. There are lots of articles on this. It was also recommend by my hot tub dealer.

[Bigralphy]

I believe that ta is quite important in pools and spas.  Jmo though

[wmccall]

I can only add that my water from the source is pretty consistent at around 7.0 PH, but every once in awhile it maybe around 8 even before it goes in the tub.   

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I have never checked Alkalinity in my tub and have always had perfect water. I normally just check Ph and Chlorine, adjust both and get great water.
Checking Alkalinity is really not needed in an above ground hot tubs, unless it's a built inground spa it's not a big deal. There are lots of articles on this. It was also recommend by my hot tub dealer.

pH reducer does absolutely nothing unless your Alkalinity is correct...one buffers the other.  In my area I've seen Alkalinity levels at 400ppm, adding 4, 6, 8, 24, tbsp. of spa down to that water will do absolutely nothing for the pH levels, at that point we're talking 8, 12, 18 oz. of pH reducer depending on the size of the spa to bring Alk. down so the pH can come in line as well

[jbequer]

I checked this morning and it's down to 7.6, so it worked for me.
Like I sad, I never need to check Alkalinity. In fact, every time I take my water to be tested my Alkalinity is dead on.
Like I said before, many people have told me not to bother with checking Alkalinity in an above ground spa because it's over kill. I have taken that advice and have done remarkabley well.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I checked this morning and it's down to 7.6, so it worked for me.
Like I sad, I never need to check Alkalinity. In fact, every time I take my water to be tested my Alkalinity is dead on.
Like I said before, many people have told me not to bother with checking Alkalinity in an above ground spa because it's over kill. I have taken that advice and have done remarkabley well.

alrighty, sounds like you got it all figured out...good luck & happy tubbing!

[jbequer]

Thank you.
 Back to my question, how often should I test PH while adjusting? Some people say every 15 min is ok, others say once a day .

I found this article.In many areas of the country, the pH & Total Alkalinity is very HIGH.

How To Bring Your pH & Alkalinity Down:

- Add1ounce of pH/AlkalinityDown per100 gallons of spa water(500gal.=5oz.)and run the jets to mix and dissolve for several minutes.

- (Approximately 15 minutes later)  Re-check the spa water and if either the pH or Alkalinity is still High, add 1/2 ounce of pH/Alkalinity Down per 100 gallons of spa water (500 gal. = 2 to 2.5 oz.) and run the jets to mix and dissolve for several minutes.

- Repeat step(2) until both the pH and Alkalinity are within the ideal ranges of you testing kit.

- Re-check the spa to days later and adjust again if needed.

- Do not add pH Up and pH Down in the same day. This will help avoid pH Bounce.

- Log the number of ounces used to balance your hot tub water as you balance it the first time
so that in the future you can add that amount all at once at time of fill up to achieve balanced water much quicker. (For Example: If it takes 10 ounces over the first day or two to balance the water, then add 10 ounces all at once the next time you refill your spa.)

[wmccall]

Thank you.
 Back to my question, how often should I test PH while adjusting? Some people say every 15 min is ok, others say once a day .

I can only add from experience I believe the 15 minutes is very wrong and will get you in trouble with "chasing" the correct reading.  Most PH adjusting products say at least a few hours.  Since nobody dies if if the PH is slightly high or low, I always wait 48 hours. Admittedly that is over kill, but it keeps me from adding too much chemicals.

[jbequer]

Yeah, that is how I feel as well, once a day while trying to adjust PH is what I have done in the past. It's definitely a slow process.

I just checked this morning to find a PH of 7.4
It took two full days and about 3/4 bottle of PH down. This is the first time I've ever had to use so much.

I took my water to be checked at Leslies Pool and found the Alkalinity to be 70. It is within range and should go up a bit with use. This pretty much tells me that the PH Decreaser worked for getting both PH and Alkalinity down.

I've never checked Alkalinity but have always had it in range after adjusting PH.

I understand that it is recommended to check Alkalinity first but even though I haven't followed that rule, my spa is near perfect once I get PH to normal range.

[Topline Mike]

Wow, some really bad information on this thread. 

"pH reducer does absolutely nothing unless your Alkalinity is correct.."  What??  pH reducer will bring down the TA (total alkalinity) so your pH is correct. 

pH and TA are directly related.  A high TA will equal a high pH.  Testing your pH only can throw you off, and here's an example.  On my first fill of water for our new hot tub 2 years ago, I tested the pH of our well water before the tub was even at our house.  The test showed a pH of 7.2 using the Taylor K2106 test kit (highly recommend by the way).  So, I thought I would only need a little pH up to get to the goal of a pH of 7.5 on the first fill.  I fill the tub, turn on the jets, and test the water.  What the??  The pH is now 8.5 or above??  Why? The answer is aeration in the tub.  I then tested he TA, and it was around 400ppm (goal of 50-70ppm).  So, testing your TA first is the best approach, as it will give you an idea of how much pH reducer (acid) you will need for the pH goal of 7.5.  In my case, I ended up adding around 26 ounces of muriatic acid to the tub to bring down my TA to 70, and the pH followed coming down to 7.6.  Now on refills, I know how much to add, but I add the acid in increments, with aeration after each addition. 

I hope this clears the air here.  Remember, pH and TA go hand in hand.  You can't have a high TA and a good pH, not possible. 

[jbequer]

Thanks for the input, but I am still not sure why it is so important to test Alkalinity if the end results is the same if it is high.  This is why I have always tested PH only and adjusted as needed, it has always worked well for me.

 Testing Alkalinity is just overkill , as others have recommended to me , unless it is a built in ground spa.

 I have noticed that suggestions on this forum are incredibly helpful and I am thankful for everyones input. I have noticed that most of the suggestions come from things that have worked in the past for certain cases, this doesn't mean that it is the only way of doing something. If someone has been checking Alkalinity first because of habit, this is great. If some others have noticed that it doesn't really make a difference and it works for them, then great. There is nothing wrong with that. Hey look, if something works  stick to it. There are many opinions and most work well, but it doesn't mean that it is one way or the highway kind of thing.

Like i said, when i first got my spa i did a lot of research and spoke to a lot of people regarding chemicals . I found out very early that everyone has their own way of adjusting their water and some are pretty strange. So what I did was to figure out the easiest way that works without spending more money on things I don't need. I did notice right away that the more chemicals used the harder it is to have nice water without having to add even more chemicals. It's like going around in circles accomplishing nothing but driving yourself crazy.

When i first got my spa I used so many things i didn't need like water clarifiers , foam products, anti scale to reduce build up on walls and such.
I had the absolute worst water. One day clear the next cloudy, the next clear the following foamy and more and more products.
Then I just read some more and took the best advice which was to use the least amount of chemicals.

What i do now is probably one of the easiest and least expensive way's of caring for my water and my water is absolutely clear. I never get scum, foam, cloudy or any other water issues, and the best part is that i only check the water twice a week adding my usual chemical one day a week and draining every three months.

How many times did i read things on using all kind of products for fresh refills, like clarifiers and scum reducers and many more which are really bad advice. Stay simple and enjoy the spa the way it was meant too.

This is my water care:

 Check PH and CHLORINE twice a week
 Add Chemicals Once a week.

Using Dichlor as Chlorine

1 Check PH and Chlorine
2 Add Aquafinesse 6 oz
3 Add Spa Perfect 6oz
4 Rinse filter and rinse Tennis Balls I have floating around

Add 1 tsp of Dichlor per person after use

Shock once a week to get 10 ppm

This has been the easiest water care I have done and the water is absolutely clear and soft for three full months.

[Topline Mike]

Thanks for the input, but I am still not sure why it is so important to test Alkalinity if the end results is the same if it is high.  This is why I have always tested PH only and adjusted as needed, it has always worked well for me.

Testing your TA first will give you an idea of how much acid you will need to get your pH in check.  Otherwise, you have no clue.  Yes, end result is the same, but why not know before hand.  If you're taking water in to get sampled, asking for the TA isn't a big deal anyhow. 

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Using the website above, look at the bottom of the page, "Effects of Adding Chemicals".  If I add this, then this will be the result.  Very good site as to understanding water chemistry. 

[jbequer]

Thank you, I tried using that chart before but it is kind of confusing. I think it works well for pools with many more gallons.