Dealer tests water...chastises me for BBB lol

[av8r]

The little girlie at the dealer tested my water this morning and other than 8.5 PH it was on the money since my recent water change and move to BBB.  I asked about buying a gallon of Muriatic acid to lower the PH and she begins to tell me, very nicely, that MA is for pools, not for spas.  Oh?, says I.  Please explain to this newbie spa owner why this is so.  She proceeds to explain that spa chems are designed for hot water and are safe for the shell, etc while pool chems are not.  Some truth there I suppose, but she goes on to tell me someone recently told her they were using bleach in their spa and that it would burn off almost immediately in the hot water and it would eat up the acrylic shell!  Whoa!  I wasn't about to get into a discussion with her about it, but I did suggest she read up on the BBB method.  I also told her it was I that told her that.   

She then nicely explained that she was only trying to make sure our investment was kept in good condition and that this is what she has been told by their chem rep.  Very nice of her, actually and she was not at all argumentative.  I bought some dry acid instead of the MA as I remembered I had half gallon left at home from cleaning some concrete earlier this year.

So...Sodium Hypochlorite eats acrylic shells?  News to me.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

meh...not that big of a deal....a retailer in the business of making money isn't going to recommend products they don't sell... also, its hard enough to sell your normal chlorine/bromine systems as 90% of new hot tub shoppers think it is pure poison that makes eyes itch, skin fall off, and bleach everyone's hair white lol so the last thing I'm going to do on the sales floor is say "hey good news, you can sanitize your hot tub with the same product you clean your toilet with" oh and this other product which is straight acid is wonderful, just make sure you wear gloves and goggles because if you get it in your eye it can blind you..and yes I very well understand that bleach/liquid acid works just fine in a hot tub, just don't expect your local dealer to be on board with it

[Tman122]

meh...not that big of a deal....a retailer in the business of making money isn't going to recommend products they don't sell... also, its hard enough to sell your normal chlorine/bromine systems as 90% of new hot tub shoppers think it is pure poison that makes eyes itch, skin fall off, and bleach everyone's hair white lol so the last thing I'm going to do on the sales floor is say "hey good news, you can sanitize your hot tub with the same product you clean your toilet with" oh and this other product which is straight acid is wonderful, just make sure you wear gloves and goggles because if you get it in your eye it can blind you..and yes I very well understand that bleach/liquid acid works just fine in a hot tub, just don't expect your local dealer to be on board with it

That's actually funny, but true.

[Chief Kyle]

Huh...my container of muriatic acid says "for pools and spa" and I bought at a farm supply store??  I also use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and washing soda (laundry soap).  Usually when it calls for acid it only calls for 1 tsp in 450 gallons of water; I don't know what that calculates to acid in ppm...but I still get in and my skin doesn't fall off.

[chem geek]

In general, concentrated chemicals can be a problem for both pool and spa surfaces, but once diluted in the bulk water they are fine.  That's true for both chlorine and acid, though between the two acid is far harsher on surfaces than hypochlorite sources of chlorine.  So while you don't want to pour either concentrated acid nor bleach directly onto an acrylic or plaster surface, if you pour them slowly over a return flow with the pump running then this will be safe.  You have to pour slowly so that the concentrated chemical doesn't fall to the floor and settle there (it will eventually diffuse or mix, but from the floor that takes time).

If you were to dump dry acid into the spa and it settled to the bottom that would be bad so that doesn't save you -- you need to add concentrated chemicals slowly with circulation to mix them into the water.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Huh...my container of muriatic acid says "for pools and spa" and I bought at a farm supply store??  I also use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and washing soda (laundry soap).  Usually when it calls for acid it only calls for 1 tsp in 450 gallons of water; I don't know what that calculates to acid in ppm...but I still get in and my skin doesn't fall off.

correct, when I refer to the "general public" that doesn't include well informed people that read/post on this forum....Chem Geek teaches the posters on here how to save money using products in their "natural form" ie  Bleach from Wal-Mart, Borates from the hardware store, etc. etc. and that is absolutely fine but for the average uniformed consumer it would be a nightmare to bring these products up during the sales process, therefore anyone trained to work a sales floor or at a water-care counter in a local retailer is not trained in this methods which is most likely why Av8r probably got some confused looks from the girl when he brought up bleach, acid, etc. in regards to an acrylic spa

[chem geek]

Also for dealers one must be careful because at least for pesticides "it is unlawful to use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling".  Now some grocery/hardware store products such as Clorox Regular concentrated unscented bleach IS registered with the EPA for use in swimming pools and spas, but that is not true for other bleaches.  20 Mule Team Borax is not registered as a pesticide but neither is Proteam Supreme Plus (though Proteam Supreme is registered) so that is at least in a gray area.  Other chemical substitutes such as baking soda for raising TA or 20 Mule Team Super Washing Soda for raising both pH and TA (i.e. soda ash) or Peladow or Dowflake for calcium chloride should be no issue.

The bigger issue is that if one is not using a net acidic source of chlorine such as Dichlor, the carbon dioxide outgassing in spas will tend to have the pH rise so if one is not carefully managing their water chemistry the pH can rise a lot and then one can get calcium carbonate scaling.  Of course, one could not pay attention to TA with Dichlor and eventually have the pH crash (though that happens more quickly when using Trichlor), but it's less likely.