Bullfrog technology

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Tman 

  "It is about false claims by a manufacturer used to sell tubs and the truth from a 100% unbiased and reasonably knowledgeable source"

  I and Eric just got done with 2 days of Bullfrog training, at no point was this claim ever made.  Unless his dealer is spouting it, I don't know?   But it's not coming from Bullfrog spa's as a sales pitch.   

[dporter22]

Well OK lets break this down, but first. I didn't call anyone a liar. Maybe to much koolaid but not a liar. And I'm sorry you had bad wet testing experiences especially with all the new jet designs both waterway and aquaquip are designing and selling that the other guys use.

Now, you take one pump or even two pumps and you turn it/them on "full power" and divert, yes I said divert it to one jet pac, full power at the jet pac right? We can both agree yes here. Now open another jet pac's diverter, are you getting full power on both? If you say yes lay off the koolaid dude. It's about GPM (gallons per minute) that exit the jet. If a pump has a fixed outflow, which they do. Then the more holes you push the GPM to the less each hole gets. Pretty simple even for this dumb plumber.

This should clarify both your and MY understanding. And with 30 years of plumbing experience I'm not sure your qualified to question my understanding of fluid mechanics or any one of it's subsets to include hydrodynamics and fluid dynamics.

Listen dporter22, I know you are happy with your tub. This is not about that. It is about false claims by a manufacturer used to sell tubs and the truth from a 100% unbiased and reasonably knowledgeable source. I wish I knew as much about plumbing as cemgeek knows about chemicals. My problem is I forgot more about plumbing that most people know.

You can get full power at every jet pac. Not at the same time. You just have to "divert" it to the jet pac you choose. It's nothing more than a simple play on words. All manufacturers do it. Relax, I beat up every claim of superiority. Ask the Arctic guys.....LOL

When you directly claim that my statements are "completely wrong and impossible", you are calling me a liar.  And once again you have failed to explain how I was wrong or how BF has made false claims.  Everyone understands, except you apparently, that I'm not talking about the actual gallons per minute measured at a single seat when I say "full power".  I have explained several times that by "full power" I mean a very significant amount of power at every seat simultaneously without forcing some seats to divert their flow to others to get that significant amount.  And I didn't have bad experiences testing other brands, I quite clearly explained that none of them could produce significant power at all the seats simultaneously.  One dealer even told me to go buy a BF if I would regularly have more than two people in the tub since all of his models could only provide significant power to two seats at a time.

For the umpteenth time, every seat in a BF has a significant amount of power (see how I didn't say "full power" since you don't seem to grasp the concept), all at the same time, and nobody has to divert power away from their seat to give someone else a more powerful flow like is required on most other brands.

And why do you keep saying that I "drank the Koolaid" when everything the BF dealer told me was true, I tested and researched several brands extensively, and then made an informed decision that by personal experience is exactly as I've described?
 

[Tman122]

Now, you take one pump or even two pumps and you turn it/them on "full power" and divert, yes I said divert it to one jet pac, full power at the jet pac right? We can both agree yes here. Now open another jet pac's diverter, are you getting full power on both? If you say yes lay off the koolaid dude. It's about GPM (gallons per minute) that exit the jet. If a pump has a fixed outflow, which they do. Then the more holes you push the GPM to the less each hole gets. Pretty simple even for this dumb plumber.

Blind maybe, but I never called you a liar.
100 GPM pump to one jet pac minus friction and plumbing maybe 90GPM at the jet pac. 100 GPM pump to 2 jet pacs maybe 45 GPM at each pac and so on.

[gizmodo]

My wife and I were looking at a Bullfrog and were ready to pull the trigger.  We ended up with a Hot Springs.  What happened?  The Bullfrog salesman blew the sale by being a "salesman".  Bullfrog spas are a neat idea and we absolutely would have purchased one.  However, we love our Hot Spring.  What's my point?  They are a both a big bowl of hot water with jets and seats that are comfortable and ultimately serve the same purpose.  Arguing about plumbing and whether something is "technology" is silly and fruitless.  Wet test the tubs and pick the one that feels the best.  Who cares how the manufacturer accomplishes that?  That being said, if you take a salesperson at their word and don't validate what they say, you're crazy.  No offense Eric.

[Tman122]

  Arguing about plumbing and whether something is "technology" is silly and fruitless.  Wet test the tubs and pick the one that feels the best.  Who cares how the manufacturer accomplishes that?  That being said, if you take a salesperson at their word and don't validate what they say, you're crazy.  No offense Eric.

I like these threads to be real. You also learn a lot about a salesman and a manufacturer.

Ever heard of polished PVC? They polish the inside (as if it can be any smoother) to reduce friction by as much as 10%. I remember when street 90's were all the rage to reduce friction. I also remember when we used to solder copper tubing, not anymore, Propress.

[gizmodo]

That's my point though, as long as the tub provides the functionality I want and does so in a reliable manner, I couldn't care less what magic dust they sprinkle in there.  People need to learn to look past marketing and sales hype.  However, I'm with you on the full power at each seat discussion, pressure being a function of volume and all.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

People need to learn to look past marketing and sales hype.

Unfortunately, it frequently seems that a lot of people don't, can't, or are just plain gullible (or subconsciously trying to validate their purchase).

[lehacf]

But all tubs have different height seats so the jets hit you in different spots.

Are you really this obtuse or are you just screwing with us?

OK, let's pick the Hot Spring Moto Massage... since people tend to rave about it.  What do you do when the moto massage is in the deep seat and you're 5' tall?  Or they put it in the shallow seat and you're 6'5"?  Or the lounge, but you float out of it?  But you really want a moto massage?

It's all about having options!  Bullfrogs are the perfect tub for people who don't deal well with commitment 

I think BF would work well if everyone who uses the tub is of the same height. I use Marquis where each seat is of different height. For that reason everyone in the household can use and enjoy the tub.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I think everyone in here needs a Hot Tub to calm down and relax a bit :-)

TMan - nobody at Bullfrog is trying to "deceive" or mis market anything...the company itself is still a relatively small "mom and pop" shop out of UTAH just trying to earn a name for themselves in the industry, most of the top end employees were 20+ year guys at Sundance that made the switch when Jacuzzi/Sundance moved to Mexico...everyone running the company is very passionate about selling a good spa and by no means are they using or attempting to use any "deceptive" marketing.  They have a nice niche and it is sold as such, just like Hot Springs has the ACE/MOTO/No-Bypass, Marquis has "hot zone" and MicroSilk, Jacuzzi has their air to water pitch, along with clearray, etc. etc.

There are plenty of killer Hot Tubs on the market, at the end of the day like Gizmodo said people will ultimately narrow down a list and buy from who they like/trust the most so all of these arguments over microscopic technical details don't do anyone who is viewing this thread any good at the end of the day, so can we just "hug it out" and move on :-)

[Tman122]

I think everyone in here needs a Hot Tub to calm down and relax a bit :-)

TMan - nobody at Bullfrog is trying to "deceive" or mis market anything...the company itself is still a relatively small "mom and pop" shop out of UTAH just trying to earn a name for themselves in the industry, most of the top end employees were 20+ year guys at Sundance that made the switch when Jacuzzi/Sundance moved to Mexico...everyone running the company is very passionate about selling a good spa and by no means are they using or attempting to use any "deceptive" marketing.  They have a nice niche and it is sold as such, just like Hot Springs has the ACE/MOTO/No-Bypass, Marquis has "hot zone" and MicroSilk, Jacuzzi has their air to water pitch, along with clearray, etc. etc.

There are plenty of killer Hot Tubs on the market, at the end of the day like Gizmodo said people will ultimately narrow down a list and buy from who they like/trust the most so all of these arguments over microscopic technical details don't do anyone who is viewing this thread any good at the end of the day, so can we just "hug it out" and move on :-)

I was at your store, and you didn't even know it. Just doing what I always do, checking out the stuff. Thanks for taking the equipment panel off for me.

I don't ever want to hear "full power at all jet pacs" again.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I think everyone in here needs a Hot Tub to calm down and relax a bit :-)

TMan - nobody at Bullfrog is trying to "deceive" or mis market anything...the company itself is still a relatively small "mom and pop" shop out of UTAH just trying to earn a name for themselves in the industry, most of the top end employees were 20+ year guys at Sundance that made the switch when Jacuzzi/Sundance moved to Mexico...everyone running the company is very passionate about selling a good spa and by no means are they using or attempting to use any "deceptive" marketing.  They have a nice niche and it is sold as such, just like Hot Springs has the ACE/MOTO/No-Bypass, Marquis has "hot zone" and MicroSilk, Jacuzzi has their air to water pitch, along with clearray, etc. etc.

There are plenty of killer Hot Tubs on the market, at the end of the day like Gizmodo said people will ultimately narrow down a list and buy from who they like/trust the most so all of these arguments over microscopic technical details don't do anyone who is viewing this thread any good at the end of the day, so can we just "hug it out" and move on :-)

I was at your store, and you didn't even know it. Just doing what I always do, checking out the stuff. Thanks for taking the equipment panel off for me.

I don't ever want to hear "full power at all jet pacs" again.

Wonderful to hear, no need to sneak around though, next time introduce yourself and I'll be sure and show you "under the hood" of any spa you'd like to take a look at.

[meriflower]

I think everyone in here needs a Hot Tub to calm down and relax a bit :-)

TMan - nobody at Bullfrog is trying to "deceive" or mis market anything...the company itself is still a relatively small "mom and pop" shop out of UTAH just trying to earn a name for themselves in the industry, most of the top end employees were 20+ year guys at Sundance that made the switch when Jacuzzi/Sundance moved to Mexico...everyone running the company is very passionate about selling a good spa and by no means are they using or attempting to use any "deceptive" marketing.  They have a nice niche and it is sold as such, just like Hot Springs has the ACE/MOTO/No-Bypass, Marquis has "hot zone" and MicroSilk, Jacuzzi has their air to water pitch, along with clearray, etc. etc.

There are plenty of killer Hot Tubs on the market, at the end of the day like Gizmodo said people will ultimately narrow down a list and buy from who they like/trust the most so all of these arguments over microscopic technical details don't do anyone who is viewing this thread any good at the end of the day, so can we just "hug it out" and move on :-)

I was at your store, and you didn't even know it. Just doing what I always do, checking out the stuff. Thanks for taking the equipment panel off for me.

I don't ever want to hear "full power at all jet pacs" again.

Wonderful to hear, no need to sneak around though, next time introduce yourself and I'll be sure and show you "under the hood" of any spa you'd like to take a look at.

BullFrogSpasMN - make sure to have a pitcher of Kool-Aid ready for Tman when he drives all the way from the Duluth area to get all a goo-goo over the BF spas - LOL!  We purchased our BF spa from you - going on 3 problem free years and still loving it.  Glad to see you on the forum!

[Tman122]

I work in Duluth but live in Sturgeon Lake. Refined red necks.