Bullfrog technology

[sue_in_texas]

What are your thoughts on the Bullfrog technology with their jetpacks?  It seems to be a big divergence from all the other hot tub manufacturers? Is it just hype? What's your experience?  Are they less prone to leaking?  Are they reliable?  I like the fact that it is so customizable, etc??? 

Thanks~~

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

For initially customizing your spa, they're GREAT! I've never heard of anyone changing them after purchase though (so that part I consider hype [though, it does remain a viable option]...IMO). Minor leaks, which can happen in any spa, don't really matter in the jet packs, as they simply drip into the spa. They're probably a wee bit more energy efficient as there's less plumbing around the outside of the shell, closer to the outside cold air.

[Racenut]

I'm not sure I'd consider it technology, but spa manufactures like to throw that word around a lot.  In shopping to replace my 15+ year old hot tub, you find that there isn't much technology advancement short of LED lighting and some of the overpriced entertainment system options. It's still just an expensive big bucket with pumps, jets and a heater. :p

That said, I just ordered a Bullfrog R7. Before we ordered, we spent an hour or more at the dealer, in their tub, swapping jet packs around to decide which ones to get.  It was great, and we'll end up with a hot tub with jets we really like in every seat. I realize that I'll probably never get more or different packs, as they are quite expensive to get separate.

I'm getting a new tub after spending too much time over the last few years fixing leaks in my old Dimension1.  The Bullfrog has less plumbing, so that's a good thing to me.  I wish everyone could use the FiberCore insulation that Watkins tubs are using, but I imagine there's a patent involved in all that.  That was the main reason I looked at Hot Spring, but I just liked the Bullfrog better in every other way so will just hope to improve my odds of having to go digging through foam.

Bullfrog is one of the few that are actually doing something different in this industry. Some will say it's a gimmick.  OK fine, but I still got to customize each seat in my tub the way I want.  Even if I never change them, I still got it my way the first time and have fewer leak opportunities to cause trouble down the road.

Also, if you search and find complaints about the water getting funky behind the jetpaks, these are all older tubs.  They redesigned the packs in 2013 to make them much better, plug in at the bottom, easier to swap out and the old ones still had plumbing behind them, the new ones use a manifold design that's much cleaner.

[av8r]

Also, if you search and find complaints about the water getting funky behind the jetpaks, these are all older tubs.  They redesigned the packs in 2013 to make them much better, plug in at the bottom, easier to swap out and the old ones still had plumbing behind them, the new ones use a manifold design that's much cleaner.

Note also that they now have a water exchange circuit behind each jet pak so the funky issue should be an issue no more.

Oh and the whole 90% less plumbing thing?  Ya...less turbulence, 80% fewer holes drilled in the tub, less surface area (tubing) to lose heat = better technology, IMO.

Conventional (old tech) spa



Bullfrog spa

[dporter22]

Also, with the jetpacks you can have all of them on at full power without diverting power from some seats to get sufficient power at others, which is the case on other brands that have diverter valves. 

[MarKee]

The argument that you can get maximum power in every seat is not a good one. It may appear that you are getting maximum power, but that's only because the JetPaks are restricting the flow.  With a properly designed diverter valve you can take power from an entire pump and focus it on one seat, rather than waste power in unused seats.

[av8r]

The argument that you can get maximum power in every seat is not a good one. It may appear that you are getting maximum power, but that's only because the JetPaks are restricting the flow.  With a properly designed diverter valve you can take power from an entire pump and focus it on one seat, rather than waste power in unused seats.

Since each JetPak has a flow control valve on it you can do the same thing with them as with a tub that has a diverter valve.  You do get more control with the BF design.

Why do you believe the JetPak design is "restricting the flow"?  BF has done studies in fluid dynamics on their design that indicate otherwise.

[Spatech_tuo]

I've always rolled my eyes at the 90% less plumbing sales pitch but now I see the spa they're comparing it to lol. It looks like its one of those off brands where they put 100 jets in it and the hilarious part is how poorly its plumbed, its ludicrous. Look at all those hanging hoses that are FAR longer than necessary which simply adds cost and increases friction and is hard to believe anyone would actually do that. Was that really another brand or was that someone in Marketing telling the Engineers to make a sample for the photo and really do a sloppy job so it shows a ton of unnecessary hose? Its like Cadillac touting their car by showing it next to a Yugo.

[Racenut]

Yeah, that does seem to be an extreme example, but that's advertising!  But 90% or 50%, it's still a lot less plumbing and fewer fittings buried in foam.  After fixing a dozen or so leaks in my old tub, I started referring to jets as "leak opportunities". So the fewer the better.  If it's more efficient too, then bonus!

As for diverter valve or not... you can shut down any seat you want if you're worried about "wasting power".  And maybe on the one pump models you might want to.  But with two pumps and all the seats wide open, there is a lot of jet power in every seat.  So if the JetPaks are restricting the flow or wasting power, you sure don't notice.

You want "technology" in the tub?  How about variable speed pumps?  That would be nice.

[av8r]

OK, so let's actually figure it out.

Here's a Sundance Spa.  Is that more relevant to you?



QCA Spa...looks pretty tidy, no?


Bullfrog view



So I see ~ 40 - 50 tubes on the 2 sides of the Sundance shown.  I count 6-10 on the BF tub.  So 40 (at a minimum) vs 10.  That's a lot better than 90% less plumbing, no?

I agree on the variable speed pumps.  No reason I can think of that they shouldn't be used.  They're a lot more money, but very reliable.

I'm sure there's a lot of advancements that could be made, but I suspect as long as people don't know and keep buying what's being offered, there will be no reason for companies to do more than add more lights, waterfalls, speakers and wifi stuff to keep the selling going.

[Tman122]

VSP's are also physically bigger pumps so there are also some limitations there. They are common in pools and they work well in pools with tubs attached. And they work better with downstream filtration which is not as efficient as suction filtration, which all/most hot tubs are. Of course I have always wondered why pools use downstream filtration? Does a sand filter work better with downstream filtration? There was a company that used VSP's in their tubs? Who was that?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

There was a company that used VSP's in their tubs? Who was that?

I remember seeing them some years ago at a show in Vegas. Very cool...but hideously expensive.

[Tman122]

Pentair Inteliflow.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

The jet variety and the ability to move the JetPaks to different seats (all of which are varying heights) is definitely not hype...its a really cool feature that allows a lot variety in the jetting and the ability for people of varying heights to get as comfortable as possible in the spa.  I was just at the factory in Utah this past week and they also run a very "tight ship" as far as quality control at the factory is concerned and also have a nice system in place so that errors in the field can be reported and corrected VERY quickly.  Best thing to do is shop around a bit and do some wet testing to find something that is comfortable for you and your family

[Tman122]

I'd rather move my butt to a different seat rather than have to move a jet pac. But that's just me. Seems wet testing is even more important. Like we always say.