SoCal Monkey wet tests: Epic, Maxxus, Cameo, Grandee/Envoy, J-385, J-575, J-470

[orlando1]

That's a great informative write up. It would be very helpful for people in search for similar high end tubs.

Thanks for that, by the way. Your feedback has been very helpful to me, too. When I started this thread, it was just with that question about the old Sundance jets, but the more general interest stuff is probably in the wet test reviews, plus your feedback, that came later.  I think when this has played out, I'll edit the more general interest parts out into a new thread with a more descriptive title to suit it. I could pull just from my parts, but if you're cool with it, I'll incorporate your feedback, too. Thanks to character count limits, it'll have to be posted as a series of posts.

I found an easier way. I was able to just modify the original post, including the title. Yay!

Yes of course, glad I could at least be of little help. Your final list includes great tubs. I sure the tub you ends up with will bring your many years of enjoyment.

[SoCal Monkey]

I dropped by a local Jacuzzi dealer today hoping to find a J-480 or J-470 I could wet test, or even a J-495 if there happened to be one filled.  I was nearby anyway because of an unrelated appointment, so I brought my suit just in case, but wasn't counting on wet testing since I hadn't called ahead. They didn't have any of the three I came looking for, but they had a J-385 and Hot Spring Envoy warm and ready, and a J-575 not warm, but filled. I knew enough about Jacuzzi to know their models were grouped into number series, but I hadn't even heard of their 500 series.

Hot Springs Envoy

I tested the Envoy just because I hadn't been in one, and it held no surprises after my test of the Grandee.  It was visually great and I liked some of the interior sculpting (like places for arms to rest), but the jets were underwhelming. The lounge, like many others, seemed sized to a taller person, but I did like a little ledge it had for shorter people to brace feet on instead of having to stretch out to brace. That didn't make me like the lounge, but at least it had a feature to make the seat usable without being over 6-ft. tall.

Jacuzzi J-385

I got in the J-385 not expecting much, but really liked the back action in every seat. The foot dome jets were what I think of as "tickle" jets – as most foot dome jets have been. They stimulate, but don't really massage, and for my taste, I'd rather have a stronger jet on my feet (no surprise if you've read previous posts) so I didn't care for these.  A couple seats had calf jets which weren't "tickle" style, but they didn't do much for me. They didn't bother me, but maybe I'm just not a calf jet guy, because none I've tested have made much of an impression. The control panel was functional, and that's about it - nothing fancy, not even a reversible display (unless I missed that) to read from inside the tub.

There were no "power jets" like the Marquis Epic or the foot jets on a Cameo, but all the back stuff was great. A lot of the massage seemed more dynamic, like pulsating or moving, so it was kind of like the "moto-massage" of Hot Spring models, but in more seats and with more variety. One (or maybe two) seats hit my lats (side muscles near armpits) in a way I liked and can't remember feeling in other models, so that was all good.

The J-385 had a couple big diverter valves like most models I've seen, but instead of add'l smaller control valves like I usually see, this had several toggle switches that basically toggled from max power to a gentler massage for whatever seat is closest. I think I liked this more than the usual twist valve, because if I want to change power, I don't usually need fine increments in those controls - I'm always twisting that thing from one extreme to the other. Simple toggles do the same thing easier, and also seemed easier at a glance to look around the tub and know what was "on" or "off" instead of, "Does that slider all the way left mean it's full on, or...?"  If I'm done with full power, it seems like the toggle would take me down to a comfortable level, and if I wanted gentler still, practically every jet was twist-adjustable to further restrict the flow and go even more gentle. Plus, the big diverters can still be manipulated for finer adjustments.

[SoCal Monkey]

Jacuzzi J-575

I got in the J-575 still cold. It wasn't shivering cold, but the water was probably in mid-80s and climbing, which felt cold compared to the spas I'd just sat in. (Again, I gave no notice, so I wouldn't expect them to keep everything warm just in case.) I spent the first couple minutes just adjusting to the temp, but then I settled in and started testing.

Wow.

There was a lot I liked about this spa, even cold. Like the J-385, it gave good back, so Jacuzzi and me get along in that department. It had everything I liked about the J-385 – good back, dynamic massage, hit spots other spas haven't, toggle switches – and more.

It has a pair of foot jets positioned much like the Sundance Cameo, below the lounge. For sheer power on those jets, which is a feature I've been looking for all along, I still have to give the edge to Cameo. However, I spent enough time holding my feet in front of them, from directly across and from opposite corners, that I don't think I'd end up unhappy. They were stronger than any "tickler" foot dome I've tested, and still strong enough to do the thing where I stretch out for a side-leg massage. (In one direction, I can do that using some calf jets as a hip jet, but alas, the other corner doesn't have that when I flip around.) If I could put the Cameo foot jets there, or Marquis geyser jets, I totally would, but are they a dealbreaker for this spa? Totally not.

The coup de e'tat... coup de grass...cherry on top of this thing was the lounge seat. To this point, the Cameo was the closest I got to fitting right in a lounge. Good enough, I'm sure, especially combined with other features I liked, but not perfect. The lounge in the J-575 fit me like a glove that was at most one size too big. Sure, someone could probably do better if they took a body mold and sculpted it to me, but in the world of off-the-shelf spas, I doubt I could do any better. (For reference, I'm 5'7", about 160lbs., lean-ish.) With all the lounge jets full on, I could relax without any bracing, and my feet actually landed where I could get the benefit of the foot jets, which have been too distant to enjoy in any other lounges. I'm not exactly sure how those foot jets are arranged, but if I'm remembering right, I could get one jet working the heel while a pulsating jet hit the balls of my feet. With that combo, and varying the strength with switches and diverters, I was pretty content with that and not really thinking about missing a powerful geyser on my feet. Plus, those stronger feet jets down below are still there if I want them later.  The leg jets on the lounge weren't bad, but like always, I gotta move my legs back and forth to reap the benefit. Skinny legs, what can I say? Great back (and neck) action in the lounge. The hand/wrist jets were also positioned just right for me, which is a first.

[SoCal Monkey]

Jacuzzi J-575 (Continued...)

With the size and layout of the J-575, the lounge does not take up an entire side, so there's still three corner seats, all of which I liked. I even liked the two side seats. The cool down seat has no jets per se, but it's the perfect spot to stretch out the legs to get both feet right in front of foot jets on the opposite side (beneath lounge). The other side seat has only a pair of jets, but they're one of the dynamic type so it feels more interesting than just two jets of water/air boring a hole in your back.

The control panel is very nice - almost as nice as Hot Springs, except you can't remove it to race against your rubber duckie. I think there's a smartphone app you can use to control stuff, but I don't know if that's standard or an extra. It's always hard to gauge the lights in brightly-lit showrooms during the day, but as far as I can tell, the LEDs won't disappoint. Judging more from pictures on Google images than my in-person impression, there's a bar with embedded LEDs that circles the entire interior, so that looks nifty. I don't give a whole lot of sh**s about the LEDs relative to other features, but at least in pictures, this one might give Hot Springs some competition in that category.

Speaking of which, the J-575 doesn't have a triple spout water feature (like Hot Springs), but it does have two waterfalls on opposite (raised) sides. These were the first waterfalls I've seen that I could imagine having some purpose beyond cosmetic. Because of those raised sides, the one above the side seat with the two jets (remember two paragraphs ago?) was in a good spot to cascade over my neck and shoulders while in that seat. The gentle pouring of water was very pleasant, but other waterfall features I've seen are too short to do that except for maybe a couple inches of shoulders poking out if I duck down in front of it. The waterfall is controllable independent of those two jets, so they can be combined or done one at a time.  The other waterfall cascades over the filters, so it's not great for sitting in front of, but if you like playing Poseidon like me, if you stand just right and spread your arms, you can position your hands under both cascades at once, enjoying a gentle hand massage while reminding all within earshot that you are master of all things aquatic. See - even waterfalls kiss my hands!

Wait, was that out loud?  Anyway...

The exterior was also the nicest I've seen, edging out my previous favorite (in the "exterior" category), the Hot Springs NXT line. I think it's the same for both in the 500 series (the J-585 is the no-lounge, open seating version, I think), but instead of the usual siding look, it has sort of a wicker-looking weave (but isn't actual wicker, which would be terrible, of course) and very cool lighting in the corners. Google it, because I can't describe it well.

I guess I have a new leading contender, but the decision still isn't made. I've seen more than one spa that I think I can be very happy with, so now I have to crunch numbers and figure out how much spa I can afford after I budget for designing and preparing the area to install it. As of tonight, I want a J-575, but I've changed my mind a few times already, so who knows? When the numbers get real, maybe I'll be prowling the boards for soft tub ideas.

[amy2421]

Thanks for the detailed reviews! If you find a dealer with a filled J-480 you should give it a try. Probably a little less than the J-575. The high-backed functional/not-just-for-cosmetics waterfall was probably what sold me on the J-470. Years ago I stayed at a resort in Mexico with a beautiful spa and they had a hydrotherapy circuit with "swan neck" fountains that arced up and hit my shoulders just right. I was reminded of that hydrotherapy when I sat in the waterfall seat in the J-480/470.

How much did you pay for J-470?

I paid $15K all in. In Canadian dollars and that included a "free" Weber BBQ (promo they were running at the time.) With SmartSeal, without stereo. Was supposed to be Platinum/Silverwood but wound up with Platinum/Roasted Chestnut... as per my other thread... 

[Quickbeam]

I paid $15K all in. In Canadian dollars and that included a "free" Weber BBQ (promo they were running at the time.) With SmartSeal, without stereo. Was supposed to be Platinum/Silverwood but wound up with Platinum/Roasted Chestnut... as per my other thread... 

Hi Amy,

Just curious where in Canada you are? We are in the Vancouver area in B.C.

[amy2421]

I paid $15K all in. In Canadian dollars and that included a "free" Weber BBQ (promo they were running at the time.) With SmartSeal, without stereo. Was supposed to be Platinum/Silverwood but wound up with Platinum/Roasted Chestnut... as per my other thread... 

Hi Amy,

Just curious where in Canada you are? We are in the Vancouver area in B.C.

We're in Ontario, near Toronto.

[lehacf]

SoCal Monkey,

Thank you very much for the excellent reviews. Could you please help me with the couple questions:

1. On J-385 what was your experience with the jets installed in the seat directly across the control panel, middle seat to the left of the control panel and seat to the right of the control panel. All these seats have 2-3 bigger jets in various configurations.

2. Comparing between Marquis Epic's seats (but not the lounger) and J-385's seats what would you prefer and why?

Thank you very much.

[orlando1]

Great write up! You have some very serious tubs on your list. So I can say congrats ahead of time lol. Either of those are going to be a fantastic choice.

[SoCal Monkey]

Thanks for the detailed reviews! If you find a dealer with a filled J-480 you should give it a try.

I will if I can find one, which still seems likely since there are two more Jacuzzi dealers if I expand my driving range out another hour or so. About those waterfalls, it's not like I would choose a spa based on them, but since practically every spa has them, the stood out from the others in serving some massage purpose, not merely cosmetic. I thought that might be the case just looking at pics of the J-480/470, which my experience in the J-575 seems to confirm. No Poseidon pose, though. The 575 has some *very* nice eye appeal, but just comparing pictures of seating and layouts, I don't expect the 400-series to be much of a step down in the hydrotherapy department, which is my biggest priority.

Sorry to hear about your color choice mix-up, but it sounds like you got an awesome spa. Enjoy!

SoCal Monkey,

Thank you very much for the excellent reviews. Could you please help me with the couple questions:

1. On J-385 what was your experience with the jets installed in the seat directly across the control panel, middle seat to the left of the control panel and seat to the right of the control panel. All these seats have 2-3 bigger jets in various configurations.[/quote]

I soaked in three tubs yesterday, so I can't promise I'm not confusing impressions, but combining memories with some labelled jet diagrams, I'll answer like this:

* The pair of jets directly opposite the control panel are "FX2 Spinners", which makes them the same as the pair I really enjoyed under the waterfall in the J-575. The spinning action gives kind of a rolling massage (that "dynamic" action I was talking about) that I liked. These, or jets like these, were the ones I thought were comparable to Hot Springs "moto-massage" if you ever tried those. A single pair probably didn't cover quite as much range as the moto-massage, but the 385 has another pair of those vertically stacked in the corner seat left of the panel (along with some other jets), making for more places and overall range to use it. That seat opposite the control panel is also where the waterfall is. It's not elevated like the 400 or 500 series, but I suppose you get get a little extra neck action out of it.

* Middle seat to the left of CP... I can see from diagrams that the bottom two are "FX2", but I can't match that up to a memory, like whether they're static or moving. The smaller jet above it is a "FX Spinner", so a smaller version of the "FX2 Spinner" described in the previous paragraph.

*Corner seat to the right of CP... The three bigger jets are "MX". I don't think they spin or pulse or anything like that, but if they're the ones I'm thinking of, you can manually adjust the nozzles inside to point where you want. There's not a huge range of motion there, but it allows for some fine tuning. The two above it are smaller neck jets, nothing fancy.

[SoCal Monkey]

(Long-winded answers continued...)

Although my exact seat memory has faded already, my impression at the time was that there were no bad seats in either the J-385 or J-575. You know how you can usually tell a seat or two you're unlikely to choose for yourself unless you're letting guests have the "good" seats? I didn't feel that way about any of these. The plainest were the cool-down seat with no jets, but even a cool-down seat is handy some of the time.

Here's links to where I found those labelled jet diagrams, by the way:

J-385: http://bit.ly/1KIZnln (Page 24 in the PDF manual.)

J-575: http://www.jacuzzi.com/j-500/manual/j-575-hot-tub/

I couldn't find an easy reference about their jet types (names and function) on their web side, but if you can get your hands on a brochure there's a more detailed page with good pictures and descriptions (in marketing-speak, of course).

2. Comparing between Marquis Epic's seats (but not the lounger) and J-385's seats what would you prefer and why?

The Epic was the first one I tested, so time and several intervening spas have dimmed that memory, but put into context of all I have wet tested since, I would sum up the Epic this way: I loved the geyser jets. That kind of jet was something I set out to find (see how I started off this thread) and the geysers came closest of any to satisfying that craving. (Cameo foot jets were a close second.) Tastes vary, so I'm not saying the Epic would be a disappointment to anyone else (or any of these tubs I'm describing, for that matter), but aside from those two jets, the Epic did not make a lasting impression on me. Looking at a picture of the layout again, I'm pretty sure I thought the corner seat opposite the panel was nice. I was a floater in the lounge, and the corners on the control panel side were the kind I wouldn't choose unless I was letting guests use the "good" ones.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome, and thanks to everyone's appreciative comments. It's nice to feel like I can share this experience to some other people's benefit, too. I know that before I de-lurked, always appreciated as much detail as possible. Wet testing has been the biggest factor in identifying possible choices, but other detailed reviews and feedback here were also important in even deciding what to put on my wet test wish list.  Until 2-3 days ago, Jacuzzi wasn't even on my short list, and now it's a leading contender, and that's thanks to a couple people saying "Hey, if you liked this, you might also like..."  So, thanks back, y'all.

[Side note: I bet most people are blissfully unaware there's a 5500 character limit on these posts, but I get reminded almost every time. Just imagine how much I suck at Twitter.]

[amy2421]

You're welcome, and thanks to everyone's appreciative comments. It's nice to feel like I can share this experience to some other people's benefit, too. I know that before I de-lurked, always appreciated as much detail as possible. Wet testing has been the biggest factor in identifying possible choices, but other detailed reviews and feedback here were also important in even deciding what to put on my wet test wish list.  Until 2-3 days ago, Jacuzzi wasn't even on my short list, and now it's a leading contender, and that's thanks to a couple people saying "Hey, if you liked this, you might also like..."  So, thanks back, y'all.

Jacuzzi was where my search started when I saw the J-480 waterfalls at a Home Show I was working at. I always swore I wouldn't spend that much money so we looked at quite a few other options, some cheaper, some around the same, and some that were even more money. Kept coming back to the Jacuzzi so that was the one we ended up with.

[SoCal Monkey]

Add the Jacuzzi J-470 to the list of what I've wet tested.

My wet testing quest stalled out for a month or so, not because I changed my mind, but because I was reaching the point where I felt like other details need to get addressed and budgeted for, in order to be in a position to make a final choice and negotiate a price. I know where the spa will go, but it's nowhere close to "ready to install". Besides the basics of a slab and whatever electrical work is needed, I have to figure out the scope and cost of the rest of the project, like putting in patio, shade/privacy features, and so on. I have an overall budget in mind, so the amount I can spend on just the spa could be affected by the projected costs of the rest. The good news is that I've now tested more than one tub that I think I'd be very happy with, so I'm not locked into any one model as the only one I think I'll like.  At the range I've been looking at (see subject line), I haven't thought any model was junk, so this has just been about trying to find the best match for my tastes, which means getting pretty nitpicky about things like jet strength and how each seat fits (or doesn't fit) *me*. With all those caveats in mind, and having wet tested about a dozen models now (I haven't written up ones I knew were out of the running), the ones I find my mind wandering back to the most and picturing in my backyard are the Sundance Cameo, and practically every Jacuzzi I've tried - 385, 575, and most recently, the 470.

All of my Jacuzzi wet tests have been almost accidental. When I started looking at this product range, you have to draw the line somewhere, so Jacuzzi was just one of the ones that wasn't on my list - no particular reason. As I saw more Jacuzzi models mentioned and someone suggested I add them to my list, I decided to look up the nearest dealer and there was one close, so might as well. I went in hoping to test some 400-series, but all they had filled was a 385 and one I'd never even heard of yet, the 575, so might as well. Both made good impressions on me, even though the 575 water temp was in the 80's. (I didn't call ahead.) After the 575, I really wanted to test a 480 to compare lounges, because the 575 had been the first lounge seat that fit me well - not just tolerably well. I still couldn't find a 480, but for a longer drive, a different store of the same dealer had a 470, so…might as well. Here's my notes on the 470:

Jacuzzi J-470

I numbered the seats this time to try to make more sense of my notes. Going clockwise starting from the control panel, I'm calling the first corner seat left of the control panel #1, next corner is #2, seat under the waterfalls is #3, Next corner is #4, middle seat with one jet is #5, and the last corner seat to the right of the control panel is #6. 

Seat 1: Spinning jets provided good kneading action on the lower back and for me, lower sides. There was one strike against I can't remember ever noticing in any other seat, Jacuzzi or otherwise, and that was that the pillow seemed to be in a place that was uncomfortable against my upper back when I leaned back. (I'm 5'7".) However, I don't use these pillows very often anyways, so the problem was easily solved by taking the pillow out. It wasn't super easy to put the pillow back in, but this was my first time trying and I didn't ask for help, so I assume that would become easy once I got the feel for it.

Seat 1 1/2: It didn't rate it's own number because it's a jet-less seat, but I thought it worth remembering that the middle seat between 1 & 2 is big enough for someone to sit there if you're looking to fill out max capacity. I've seen a lot of spas where sitting in front of the filters just isn't possible, so this rated a note.

Seat 2: This is the seat that least impresses me in this tub, but I can still see using it. The three main jets are narrowish, strong (at full power), and static, which isn't my favorite kind of jet. They're the kind I think of as "itchy" if I stay in front of them for a long time. However, the perk of these jets is that they're easily re-directed by hand, so there's not much variety to the flow itself (other than making them weaker/stronger with diverters and such), but I found lots of ways to point them at different areas at varying strengths to yield a lot of variety to otherwise boring jets. In a spa devoid of any hand or wrist jets, I also found this to be the best seat for that if I just put my hands behind my back. I believe these jets are also the same type as the foot jets in the 575.  For sheer power, they're not close to Marquis' "geyser" jets, or Sundance's "whirlpool" foot jets in the Cameo, but if I didn't have those for comparison, I'd probably think, "Yeah, that's strong for a foot jet."

Seat 3: Two jets looks like a boring seat, but these are big rotational jets, which means good dynamic, kneading massage. They hit my lower back. This is also the waterfall seat, and on the 400-series, the waterfalls are elevated, so they're not as useless massage-wise as the waterfalls that are  mostly cosmetic on other spas. Sitting straight up, I found the waterfall massage affect underwhelming, but slouching down just a bit gave it enough room to pour and feel good.

[SoCal Monkey]

Jacuzzi J-470 (Continued ...)

Seat 4: My clipboard note on this one was "All over, all at once". It's a lot of jets and a lot of power (turned all the way up), but also nice for hitting a lot of areas more gently with some diverter tweaking. All of these jets (and most on other seats as well) can be dialed down or off by turning the bezel of each jet. At full power, I preferred this seat with a couple of the higher ones turned off. This is the only seat with calf jets. I don't know if it's my leg shape or what, but I have yet to find calf jets in any spa that do anything memorable for me. I usually treat them as lean-forward hand jets.

Seat 5: Not the most exciting seat in the joint, but I won't always want exciting, right? Height-wise, it's in between a full immersion and a cool-down seat, so it's a cooler spot without having to retreat to the full-on cool-down seat with no jets. (I didn't number that one, right in front of the control panel.) The jet is one of those big spinners like in Seat 3, so it gives a kneading massage right in the small of the back.

Seat 6: Take a pair of those big spinners and stack them, then add four "rifling action" jets across the top. That worked for me. Those four across the top are more upper back than shoulders if I sit up, but a slight slouch turns them into shoulder jets. Sitting up, those upper jets hit my lats for an almost wrap-around feel that I can't figure out just looking at the jet diagrams.

Foot Dome: I didn't mention it yet, but it's basically a part of every seat, because every seat can reach it. Besides the massage it provides, it's also a convenient anchor point if the jets are on strong enough to push you out of your seat. I have generally been unimpressed by foot domes because the jets are the narrow static kind that aren't my favorite, especially on feet. I'm not sure whether this one was superior, or it just took me this long to discover a novel way to use them, but I came away liking it. 

The outer jets were nothing special or different, but it also has a center vertical jet, marketed as a light diffuser or somesuch. At its weakest strength, it's barely strong enough for a foot to take notice if you put it over it. With the diverters set another way, though (all toward the control panel side), that center column becomes a pleasant place to hold feet. It's not powerful, but the gentle pressure hits more area, so it doesn't tickle or itch.

The novel use I found was that if I suspended myself between corners (hands braced to the sides), over the foot dome, I could rest my feet in front of some corner seat spinners and it was like a lounge seat. The dome jets hit a lot of areas that way, including my butt and legs, while the feet stretch out (especially to seats 1 & 6) for a much better close-up massage than they get hovering right over a dome jet. (The foot jets in the 575 lounge are also spinners - another reason I liked it.)

Wet testing tip (not that anyone asked): Some of my favorite discoveries in all this wet testing come from stretching out sideways and diagonally to find unexpected ways to combine jets. It's a big reason the Cameo has remained high on my list - that one was really good when I stretched out sideways in front of the "foot" jets. When you're wet testing, don't just sit in each seat like you're modeling for the brochure. Slouch, stretch, and move around with different diverter combinations set to see what you might discover that the picture can't tell you.

J-470 Conclusion

If the Jacuzzi 400 or 500 series had 2-3 of those high-powered jets that I originally set out to find when this thread started, I think they'd be the only contender left (budget permitting). They don't have that, but there's a lot I like anyway. More than any other manufacturer, they seem to include more of the kinds of jets I like most, with spinning or otherwise dynamic jets that feel more like massage to me than just varying the number of jets spitting a static stream of water/air wherever they're pointed. I don't know if that means more maintenance headaches down the road because of more moving parts, but it feels great. Where the Cameo lounge was the first lounge that I found the fit acceptable, the only Jacuzzi lounge I've sat in (J-575) was a bona fide good fit. That's why I wish I could try a 480, to see if the lounge really fits the same. Salespeople say yes (or probably), but none have been ablet to track down exact measurements, and I know a few inches difference can have a big impact.

I care most about the feel of what's inside, but among close contenders, the 500 series sure do look nice on the outside, too. Those corner lights on the exterior are cool, and the strip lighting inside looks like it's probably pretty cool at night, even though I can't see for myself. The 575 control panel was excellent (and invertible, for easier reading from the tub), while the 470 panel was good, but not invertible.  My comparison feels incomplete without a 480 to wet test, but if I could choose any spa I've tested so far with no budget considerations at all, I'm leaning toward the 575. Budget considerations and further testing could lean me another way, but it's good to have choices.

[SoCal Monkey]

It's been so long since I last posted this thread that anyone who followed it has probably moved on, but just in case anyone is still interested, I've put a deposit down on a J-575 and a contractor starts work next week to prep the installation site with slab and electric. My quest was delayed by life getting in the way, but hopefully I'll be soaking in my new hot tub within a couple of weeks.