first time buyer - Bullfrog R6L vs Hot Springs Flair

[pmang]

Hi all...

I'm a first time buyer and could use some advice. I've been doing research and visiting showrooms the past two months and I think I'm starting to narrow down my choices. A little background.. My parents have had a Hot Springs Classic (the dog bowl... 4 jets, open seating) for the the past 25 years. It's the spa I grew up with and is my benchmark of what I find comfortable seating. I'm a big boy and my girlfriend is tall. We originally thought we wanted a round design as barrier free is what I ideally want. I don't fit comfortably in most spa's molded seats. We found that the round spa didn't give us the type of foot well space we would like. So, the research began and I looked at other designs while keeping in mind my need for a less restrictive seating layout. I've looked at most major brands with showrooms in my area (MA). I "think" I've narrowed it down to two that we will wet test soon. The Bullfrog R6L and Hot Springs Flair (although I was also taken with the Hot Springs Aria... but the 10K+ price may put it out of reach). The corner seats in these models are comfortable as they're not too restrictive in the hip/leg area and I found the loungers nice as well (no side "lip" being a big reason... I'm not trapped in there). I do have some concerns with each model that I hope some of you here can help with. Biggest issue is pump strength (Bullfrog has 1, Hot Springs 2). We both want a high water pressure on our backs. It seams the Bullfrog is pretty weak when all the jets are on. Once I shut off the one jetpack and other jets not being used, pressure seams acceptable for 2 (we haven't tried it at the same time yet). I had high hopes that the Flair would be stronger with the two pumps but it seams that the main corner seat and lounger (the 2 seats we would primarily use) were on the same pump with a diverter valve. They were both ok when the valve was in the middle but to get either to full blast, the other one was pretty much shut down. You also couldn't shut off the jets not in use as easily as the Bullfrog. I'd love to hear from people who have these spas and what they think of the pressure. Initial prices I've gotten (without negotiating) are $6999 for the R6L and $7999 for an in stock Flair. These aren't "out the door prices" yet.... Can you think of any other barrier free designs/brands I should look at? How do these prices sound? We have The Big E (state fair) opening up soon. Am I better off waiting for an event like that or try to make a deal on a floor model? Thanks!!!

[ORDucks]

I have the Bullfrog R7L which has two pumps, Honestly we rarely have them on high. On high it's a very deep massage that moves you. Typically it's on low for long soaks. But if you want that then I would go with a two pump model. Ours was a floor model and cost about the same as a R6L. 

[dporter22]

If you decide on a Bullfrog, I'd recommend spending the extra money and getting an A7.  You won't have any problems with space or pressure (even with every jet and jet pack fully open), you get to choose more jet packs, and you get a much better controller (the R series controllers are fine, but they're menu-based so you have to scroll through a bunch of branching menus to make adjustments).

[Hottubguy]

Hi all...

I'm a first time buyer and could use some advice. I've been doing research and visiting showrooms the past two months and I think I'm starting to narrow down my choices. A little background.. My parents have had a Hot Springs Classic (the dog bowl... 4 jets, open seating) for the the past 25 years. It's the spa I grew up with and is my benchmark of what I find comfortable seating. I'm a big boy and my girlfriend is tall. We originally thought we wanted a round design as barrier free is what I ideally want. I don't fit comfortably in most spa's molded seats. We found that the round spa didn't give us the type of foot well space we would like. So, the research began and I looked at other designs while keeping in mind my need for a less restrictive seating layout. I've looked at most major brands with showrooms in my area (MA). I "think" I've narrowed it down to two that we will wet test soon. The Bullfrog R6L and Hot Springs Flair (although I was also taken with the Hot Springs Aria... but the 10K+ price may put it out of reach). The corner seats in these models are comfortable as they're not too restrictive in the hip/leg area and I found the loungers nice as well (no side "lip" being a big reason... I'm not trapped in there). I do have some concerns with each model that I hope some of you here can help with. Biggest issue is pump strength (Bullfrog has 1, Hot Springs 2). We both want a high water pressure on our backs. It seams the Bullfrog is pretty weak when all the jets are on. Once I shut off the one jetpack and other jets not being used, pressure seams acceptable for 2 (we haven't tried it at the same time yet). I had high hopes that the Flair would be stronger with the two pumps but it seams that the main corner seat and lounger (the 2 seats we would primarily use) were on the same pump with a diverter valve. They were both ok when the valve was in the middle but to get either to full blast, the other one was pretty much shut down. You also couldn't shut off the jets not in use as easily as the Bullfrog. I'd love to hear from people who have these spas and what they think of the pressure. Initial prices I've gotten (without negotiating) are $6999 for the R6L and $7999 for an in stock Flair. These aren't "out the door prices" yet.... Can you think of any other barrier free designs/brands I should look at? How do these prices sound? We have The Big E (state fair) opening up soon. Am I better off waiting for an event like that or try to make a deal on a floor model? Thanks!!!

The big e is quite the fair. I look forward to it every year. I've seen some of the prices on tubs there and you can do better in stores. Most of the hot tub tents are manned by high pressure and high commissioned sales guys.  Usually at that fair you find master spas, jacuzzi, sundance, maax and hot springs. I've never seen a booth with bullfrogs in them. The only tent manned by regular in store staff is usually the hot springs guy. You are looking at 2 of the premier tubs. Wet test both and see which one fits you better

[kingdarb]

I have a Bullfrog R6.  It is for the most part, just the wife and I who use it.  I am 6'2" and it is plenty big enough for me and her to use.  With four people it remains comfortable, but more than that and you are pretty intimate.  I got to choose three jetpacks and the fourth seat has permanent jets in it.  Our tub has one pump, not two.  Having said that, with the pump running on high and all of the jets running on full it has more than enough power for either of us - I get that itchy from-too-much-pressure feeling if the jets are fully open with the pump on high.  The controller is adequate, and it is menu based so you have to go through steps to make adjustments.  That said, the buttons that I use most day to day are the ones that control the jets and the lights, which are dedicated.  Everything else I use very sporadically so for me, more expensive controller was not worth it. 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

jump up to an R7, MUCH better jetting options than the Flair which basically has 3 styles of jets and the construction on the Bullfrog is also much better, sealed base and maintenance free framework that has a lifetime warranty..the Flair uses crappy wood and a piece of poly plastic for the base

[pmang]

Thanks for the advice so far guys.... Well, we did our first wet test with both of us the other day. Went to the dealer to try the Bullfrog R6L. When we got there, that tub had been drained and they filled up an A7L. We hopped in (as an R7L is on our "list" as well). I was concerned as the seats weren't as open as the R6L but they were comfortable enough to still be considered. My girlfriend LOVED the hip jets. I found the power very strong as well. My biggest issue was with the lounger. While I fit fine in the R6L, I was floating out of this one. It just wasn't as comfortable for me. This is a concern now.... I didn't seam to line up with it's curves.

Saturday we have a wet test set up for a Hot Springs Flair. The have an Aria dry on the floor as well.... I'm worried I'm going to like the most expensive (of the 4 I'm looking at) Aria the best out of all of them! haha.... Does anyone have any experience/advice with these two models? Not sure if I'd like the moto massage in the lounger better than the stationary jets in the Flair. I will say the corner seat in the Aria is amazing. Love that the have elbow rests built in. Sitting in it dry, it was the most comfortable seat I've found in any spa.... Of course my girlfriend has noticed there's no hip jets in either of these!! 

[Hottubguy]

jump up to an R7, MUCH better jetting options than the Flair which basically has 3 styles of jets and the construction on the Bullfrog is also much better, sealed base and maintenance free framework that has a lifetime warranty..the Flair uses crappy wood and a piece of poly plastic for the base

That's not what you were saying a month or 2 ago when you sold Hot Springs!

[Quickbeam]

jump up to an R7, MUCH better jetting options than the Flair which basically has 3 styles of jets and the construction on the Bullfrog is also much better, sealed base and maintenance free framework that has a lifetime warranty..the Flair uses crappy wood and a piece of poly plastic for the base

That's not what you were saying a month or 2 ago when you sold Hot Springs!

Yes, funny how quickly things change. Next he'll be telling us that ACE is no good!

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

jump up to an R7, MUCH better jetting options than the Flair which basically has 3 styles of jets and the construction on the Bullfrog is also much better, sealed base and maintenance free framework that has a lifetime warranty..the Flair uses crappy wood and a piece of poly plastic for the base

That's not what you were saying a month or 2 ago when you sold Hot Springs!

I see the peanut gallery is active....go through my posts, nobody has ever ask me directly what I think of the base on a limelight or hot spot, I was never happy with the way they were constructed but as someone who sold the brand was I supposed to openly volunteer that information without being asked? c'mon think about it, is a Jacuzzi dealer going to come on here and and create a post going "gee I think ClearRay is pretty crappy"....and ACE is just fine as long as its setup properly and you don't mind replacing the cell every couple years

[pmang]

Hi all.... op here... thought I'd offer a quick update. After considering both the Bullfrog R6L/R7L and Hot Springs Flair, we've put down a deposit on a Hot Springs Aria. That tub layout and power is perfect for us! We wet tested over the weekend and loved it. It's the only tub I've been in where I like every seat and can see a use for them all. Power of the jets was fantastic too....

Now comes the tough part of site prep. In a nutshell, I have a room off my detached garage (not heated in MA) that used to be an outdoor kitchen. It's 9 by 19 with a tin roof, windows and a concrete slab. I've already had an electrician give me an estimate to get the needed power into the room (to code as well). I'm meeting with a contractor next week to come up with a plan for the room. A wall will be taken down to get the tub in and the room will be remodeled. First of all, I'm not certain of my existing concrete slab as I don't know it's thickness. We are hoping to put a plywood sub floor over it and then cover with a sheet vinyl. Is this thinking a red flag? If need be, could I put a mesh reinforcement over the existing concrete and add another 2 inches? I've also been reading about spa pads. Maybe I should just put an 8x8 EZ Pad over my existing concrete for an even load distribution. This would seem to be a simple, low cost, peace of mind solution... Is it?

For the walls and ceiling I'm thinking of knotty pine (with poly finish). We would add an outdoor ceiling fan in the room and a side wall exhaust fan. There will also be 2 full size windows by the tub. Is this enough ventilation? Does anyone have any other advise?

I'll probably start a new thread with these questions so more people will read it.... Thanks!

[av8r]

Make the roof retractable