Caldera vs Hot Springs vs Sundance

[jujubee]

So my wife and I finally wet tested 3 tubs. 
1)  The Sundance Cameo
2)  The Hot Springs Vanguard
3)  The Caldera Makena

Questions/Issues I would like advice/opinions on...
Cameo:  Price quotes with stairs & cover w/ lifter delivery etc.. $12.5K
The cameo was a nice tub.  Wife did float in the lounge but was not turned off by it.  They boast about the UV system to clean water, but make no claims about not using chems (Bromine) in addition.
The Sundance dealer is where I get my pool chemicals from.  They are very good to work with and always ready to answer any questions.  I feel good about this dealer.  This dealer is about 15 miles from our house and 3 from where I work.  Stop in for chems for pool on my way home from work.

Vanguard: Price ... $11.2K
Seemed a bit noisy but wet test was in a room so could have been echo.  ACE salt seemed nice, soft skin after getting out.  I was not "blown away" by moto massage seats, but it was ok.  I hear so many people tell me salt is bad...  Salt converts to chlorine (liquid they say) and that keeps Ph High.  Others tell me salt will corrode parts and need to service more frequently.  They boast that ALL water is filtered (100% no bypass filtration).  Does this really matter?
So is the ACE system good or not?
The Hot Springs dealer has several stores.  The one in our area is large.  The sales rep didn't seem as knowledgeable as I would have expected but he was ok to work with.  The dealership has some bad ratings on Yelp but some great ones as well. This dealer is 28 miles in a town/city that we go to frequently, but a bit more out of the way.

Makena: Price quote does not include stairs or lifter, but does include lid... $8.5K.  Small additional charge for delivery as we are farther away from this dealer.  I realize the Makena is not in the premium line like the other 2 tubs but only wet one to test.  Tahitian $9K, Geneva $9.5K.  As I understand it, Caldera and Hot Springs made by same manufacturer.  Even share a couple of tubs I hear.
The Caldera dealer has been selling tubs for 20 years, the company in business for near 50 years.  He was great to talk with, not a typical pushy sales person.  Problem is, dealer is farther out of the way at 36 miles.  We do not go to this area much.

So with all that, my wife liked the Caldera tub best since it has a place to anchor her feet in the lounge as well as in the foot well in the middle.  This is a big deal in here eyes and I agree. 
Another question, is it bad to purchase a tub from one dealer and look to another for chems/support/service?  I really like the folks closer to my home.  They have done right by me for the 2 years I have had a pool and look to them for chems/advice but their spa was not as wow for the $$$.
Is the ACE system better than in the past (it seems to have been problematic in the past)?  Is salt really any better than bromine?  HS is the only tub using it that we saw.  Sundance dealer stated that Sundance developed it several years ago and stopped using it 3-5 years later due to corrosion issues. 
The HS dealer uses a sub-panel with 2 breakers (20a & 30a) and claim it is better than a single 50a breaker.  Is it?

It is so difficult because all dealers will tell you their tubs are the best and give you lots of reasons why.  They all seem logical so how do you choose?

I have been reading for days and don't feel I am any closer to picking a tub.  This is a large purchase and I don't want to be looking back.

Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

[Sooner Wing]

Man I feel you.  We are in love with a Vanguard but the Ace system scares the crap out of me.  I think that we will be replacing salt cells every 1 to 1.5 years at $700 a pop but the long term effects on the other components is really what bothers me.  I guess we could always switch to a different system before the end of the 5 year warranty if there were any serious signs of corrosion.  What all was included in the Vanguard price you listed?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Man I feel you.  We are in love with a Vanguard but the Ace system scares the crap out of me.  I think that we will be replacing salt cells every 1 to 1.5 years at $700 a pop but the long term effects on the other components is really what bothers me.  I guess we could always switch to a different system before the end of the 5 year warranty if there were any serious signs of corrosion.  What all was included in the Vanguard price you listed?

If you think the ACE is anymore scary then general water care/maintenance, then here's a fun fact for you

In the 5/6 years I have been selling ACE/ACE has been around, I have seen more people (most of them on std. chlorine or bromine) "corrode" or cause significant damage to their hot tub by simply mismanaging their pH and Calcium levels...faaaaar more than any corrosion or damage caused by an ACE Saltwater system and its not even close

[jujubee]

So if I am reading between the lines correctly, you are confirming that ACE DOES corrode the parts?  And can you point me to statistics to support your claims?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

So if I am reading between the lines correctly, you are confirming that ACE DOES corrode the parts?  And can you point me to statistics to support your claims?

no, I'm saying far more damage and corrosion is caused by people not knowing what there doing with pH and Calcium levels...ACE doesn't corrode anything, the PPM level is not high enough to corrode anything (~1800ppm salt) Saltwater from the sea is above 36,000 ppm.  If they were corrosion concerns the tubs would be "built" in a completely different way than a non saltwater tub (which they are not) and they definitely still wouldn't offer/honor a 5 year component warranty if there were corrosion concerns  (which they still do) you have no concerns if you decide to buy the system, just start it up properly with soft water (under 75ppm) add the salt, and enjoy your tub!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Man I feel you.  We are in love with a Vanguard but the Ace system scares the crap out of me.  I think that we will be replacing salt cells every 1 to 1.5 years at $700 a pop but the long term effects on the other components is really what bothers me.  I guess we could always switch to a different system before the end of the 5 year warranty if there were any serious signs of corrosion.  What all was included in the Vanguard price you listed?

If you think the ACE is anymore scary then general water care/maintenance, then here's a fun fact for you

In the 5/6 years I have been selling ACE/ACE has been around, I have seen more people (most of them on std. chlorine or bromine) "corrode" or cause significant damage to their hot tub by simply mismanaging their pH and Calcium levels...faaaaar more than any corrosion or damage caused by an ACE Saltwater system and its not even close

  I think ace probably works fine.  I know they have had some issues but if the consumer is taught on how to use it or any system properly there should really be no issues other than general wear and tear that occurs with parts.
     You mention you have seen more people have significant problems using chlorine or bromine?  For me that is far from the truth.  Having dealt with spas for only 17 years I maybe seen half a dozen in that time with issues from bad chem use.  Heater, shaft seals or a rusty pressure switch which could be chem related but then again possibly not.  Again most of them were either not educated or just got lazy and let the spa go.  In the latter case, it doesn't matter what spa you have or what system they have been using lazy is lazy.    Pick what you like,  if it's the ace system fine, if not than that's fine as well I am sure you would be happy with what ever you get.   

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Man I feel you.  We are in love with a Vanguard but the Ace system scares the crap out of me.  I think that we will be replacing salt cells every 1 to 1.5 years at $700 a pop but the long term effects on the other components is really what bothers me.  I guess we could always switch to a different system before the end of the 5 year warranty if there were any serious signs of corrosion.  What all was included in the Vanguard price you listed?

If you think the ACE is anymore scary then general water care/maintenance, then here's a fun fact for you

In the 5/6 years I have been selling ACE/ACE has been around, I have seen more people (most of them on std. chlorine or bromine) "corrode" or cause significant damage to their hot tub by simply mismanaging their pH and Calcium levels...faaaaar more than any corrosion or damage caused by an ACE Saltwater system and its not even close

  I think ace probably works fine.  I know they have had some issues but if the consumer is taught on how to use it or any system properly there should really be no issues other than general wear and tear that occurs with parts.
     You mention you have seen more people have significant problems using chlorine or bromine?  For me that is far from the truth.  Having dealt with spas for only 17 years I maybe seen half a dozen in that time with issues from bad chem use.  Heater, shaft seals or a rusty pressure switch which could be chem related but then again possibly not.  Again most of them were either not educated or just got lazy and let the spa go.  In the latter case, it doesn't matter what spa you have or what system they have been using lazy is lazy.    Pick what you like,  if it's the ace system fine, if not than that's fine as well I am sure you would be happy with what ever you get.

oh I agree Jim, I was simply trying to make the point that there is no reason to be "scared" of ACE more than any other water care system that is available....ACE, Chlorine, MPS/Ozone/Clear-ray, Baqua Spa, Bromine...They ALL require maintenance and the water being balanced, and if that maintenance/balance is not done properly they can ALL damage your spa, none should be "scarier" than the next.

[Hot Spring Ace]

Man I feel you.  We are in love with a Vanguard but the Ace system scares the crap out of me.  I think that we will be replacing salt cells every 1 to 1.5 years at $700 a pop but the long term effects on the other components is really what bothers me.  I guess we could always switch to a different system before the end of the 5 year warranty if there were any serious signs of corrosion.  What all was included in the Vanguard price you listed?

If you think the ACE is anymore scary then general water care/maintenance, then here's a fun fact for you

In the 5/6 years I have been selling ACE/ACE has been around, I have seen more people (most of them on std. chlorine or bromine) "corrode" or cause significant damage to their hot tub by simply mismanaging their pH and Calcium levels...faaaaar more than any corrosion or damage caused by an ACE Saltwater system and its not even close

  I think ace probably works fine.  I know they have had some issues but if the consumer is taught on how to use it or any system properly there should really be no issues other than general wear and tear that occurs with parts.
     You mention you have seen more people have significant problems using chlorine or bromine?  For me that is far from the truth.  Having dealt with spas for only 17 years I maybe seen half a dozen in that time with issues from bad chem use.  Heater, shaft seals or a rusty pressure switch which could be chem related but then again possibly not.  Again most of them were either not educated or just got lazy and let the spa go.  In the latter case, it doesn't matter what spa you have or what system they have been using lazy is lazy.    Pick what you like,  if it's the ace system fine, if not than that's fine as well I am sure you would be happy with what ever you get.

oh I agree Jim, I was simply trying to make the point that there is no reason to be "scared" of ACE more than any other water care system that is available....ACE, Chlorine, MPS/Ozone/Clear-ray, Baqua Spa, Bromine...They ALL require maintenance and the water being balanced, and if that maintenance/balance is not done properly they can ALL damage your spa, none should be "scarier" than the next.

When you are considering buying from a dealer you want to get to know them and be comfortable that they know what they're doing and will be helpful in every facet of spa ownership including water care, no matter the method. Some are experts in most every facet while others not so much. With Ace you want a dealer that not only sells it but uses it in the store/home and has experience that they can fall back on to help get you started and help you along the way and by help I don't mean just pulling out instructions and reading them to you and that's the case whether you're using Ace, Chlorine, bromine etc. Each dealer has their own level of expertise, we all know that at some places all you'll get is regurgitated instructions off a piece of paper from someone behind the counter who doesn't have day to day interaction with the various processes while other dealers will have trained, experienced staff that can walk you through whatever process because they've lived it. Its why we tell people to ask a lot of questions up front to get to know what you can expect from that dealership when you need assistance at varying times for various topics.

[jujubee]

I appreciate the advice on ACE.  We live in an area with few dealers so the choices are limited.  My "gut" tells me that if the ACE system were still problematic it would have been eliminated.
I am more concerned about the other questions.  I did spend time with each of the dealers (at least 2 visits) already.  I feel that all are trustworthy (as can be).  I have no real way of telling if they are feeding me a line of crap (from a script) or from real experience.

Are there reasons to go with one brand vs another? (Caldera, Hot Springs, Sundance)
On dealer (Hot Springs) states that the Caldera tubs are the equivalent  of Hot Springs-Hot Spot spas (the lower end spas).  How do I know if this is true or totally utter crap?

I am at the mercy of the dealers as I only know what I read here and on  other forums....

EDIT:
I am still reading and came across another dealer in our area.  They claim to be a Wholesaler.  I called to speak with them and set up we tests.  They sell Artesian spas.  The guy states that fiberglass is better, just look at boats on the ocean...

Any thoughts on Artesian spas?

Thanks again for assisting..

[Hot Spring Ace]

It is so difficult because all dealers will tell you their tubs are the best and give you lots of reasons why.  They all seem logical so how do you choose?

I have been reading for days and don't feel I am any closer to picking a tub.  This is a large purchase and I don't want to be looking back.

Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

One part is simple, those are 3 very good brands so stop worrying, you wouldn't be making a mistake by choosing any one of them. What it comes down to is which ones is best for you so wet test all 3 and use that along with your gut feel to tell you which one you'd enjoy best.