optima operating costs higher than vanguard?

[brnelson]

I couldn't fit substantially higher in the title. Finally I am getting close to pulling the trigger. I wet tested a HS Vanguard, a Sundance Optima, a HS Envoy and a Tiger River Caspian yesterday. I liked the Optima best. Three deep seats and the jets seemed powerful. I also liked the foot jets. Unfortunately it is getting out of my price range ($9,600). Also the sales lady said that the operating costs on the Vanguard could be as much as double the Vanguard (which I probably liked second best). I also liked the Envoy but I really don't want a lounger. She is coming back to me with a price today on the Vanguard as a Hot Spring sales begins this week. Dos it make senses that the Optima operating costs would be that much higher? She seemed to be pushing the Hot Spring more than the Sudance. She mentioned that Vanguard winter operting costs here in New England would be about $45 a month compared to as much as $90 or $100 on the Optima. As always, your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Brewman]

Sounds like for whatever reason, she wants to steer you to HS.
  I don't think there are any studies that have been published that rate one spa more or less energy efficient than another.  If there are, I'd love to see them.
From what I've read and heard over the years, good quality spas all cost pretty much the same to run, all things being equal.
  You're only going to know the power costs of the spa you buy, not the ones you didn't.

It stands to reason that it takes more energy to heat and maintain temperatures on higher volumes of water- the Optima clocks in around 500 gallons, not sure about the other ones.

Get the spa you like best, or the one that fits your budget best, etc....  

My Optima costs probably about a $1 per day, average.  More in winter, less in summer.  You costs will be different- your useage patterns, and the cost per KWH you pay for power will have a huge impact on the actual electric bill.

[wetone]

She mentioned that Vanguard winter operting costs here in New England would be about $45 a month compared to as much as $90 or $100 on the Optima. As always, your thoughts would be appreciated.

I don't believe the Vanguard would  be that much less to operate then the optima if both spas were used the same.
We metered the power use on an Optima here in Ontario Canada in February when the temps with wind chills were hovering around -25C to -30C.

The meter was on the spa for 34 days, hydro cost for 34 days was $37.00.
The client uses the optima twice a day, every day morning and evening about 30 min per use.

[Chris_H]

I can guarantee you the Optima will cost more than the Vanguard to operate.  Double?  Probably not that much more.  A few reasons for it, the Optima has 2 - 2.5HP motors and the Vanguard has 2 - 1.65 HP motors and the Optima also has a 1.5HP air blower which the Vanguard does not have in their spa.  Just the extra HP will cause the operating costs to increase.  Also the Optima has 20% more water.  

If you want a better comparison to the Optima, you would need to be comparing the Grandee.

$9,600 is reasonable for an Optima with no stereo.

[hottubdan]

Agreeing with the above.  Vanguard should cost less to operate.  How much less hard to say.

JohnD's post left out critcal factors:

What is the cost of kwh?
How does the cost convert to US $?

Hot Spring has published 3rd party testing for energy costs the Sovereign.  
http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/energy-efficiency.html  The Vanguard should be close to those numbers.  Sundance has not.  One could only wonder why.

By the way, I understand comparing Hot Spring's data with John's test is apples to oranges, but, it shows the Sovereign in Calgary costing $19.28/month, Canadian $.

In conclusion, the Vanguard should cost less than the Optima to operate.  Half as much, probably not.

[cburk0677]

I will be installing a 2006 Vanguard this spring in Indianapolis. I am hoping it will cost less than $30 per month to operate. I pay around 9 cents per kwh. My wife doesn't like the water super hot so we will probably keep it around 101.  I plan on monitoring my electric bills pretty closely the first couple months to be able to track how much my bill increases.

[tony]

I couldn't fit substantially higher in the title. Finally I am getting close to pulling the trigger. I wet tested a HS Vanguard, a Sundance Optima, a HS Envoy and a Tiger River Caspian yesterday. I liked the Optima best. Three deep seats and the jets seemed powerful. I also liked the foot jets. Unfortunately it is getting out of my price range ($9,600). Also the sales lady said that the operating costs on the Vanguard could be as much as double the Vanguard (which I probably liked second best). I also liked the Envoy but I really don't want a lounger. She is coming back to me with a price today on the Vanguard as a Hot Spring sales begins this week. Dos it make senses that the Optima operating costs would be that much higher? She seemed to be pushing the Hot Spring more than the Sudance. She mentioned that Vanguard winter operting costs here in New England would be about $45 a month compared to as much as $90 or $100 on the Optima. As always, your thoughts would be appreciated.

My Optima is older and configured a little different than the new models, but operating costs don't come close to the figures she is quoting...maybe half that and I am in New England.  I know from my dealer who sells both Sundance and HotSpring spas, that the operating costs of the Optima and the Grandee are pretty close.  You may look at the SD Majesta which is an Optima clone but smaller...more in line with the size spas you are comparing to.

[Brewman]

The pump draw is one component of cost.  If the one tub has pumps that draw less current while they are in operation, then the spa will use less power IF the pumps don't run any longer for some reason.  
Power consumption is the amount of amps. drawn over a period of time.

I'd speculate that the heater would impact the cost just as much if not more.  Again it's a matter of power draw over a period of time.  If they both have 5K heaters, and they hold heat in so they run about the same, then heating costs would be equal, or relatively close.  If one leaked heat and the heater ran more, then that would drive up costs.

I still submit that this sales person was stretching when she claimed that the difference would be as significant as she wanted her potential client to believe.

[drewstar]

The pump draw is one component of cost.  If the one tub has pumps that draw less current while they are in operation, then the spa will use less power IF the pumps don't run any longer for some reason.  
Power consumption is the amount of amps. drawn over a period of time.

I's speculat that the heater would impact the cost just as much if not more.  Again it's a matter of power draw over a period of time.  If they both have 5K heaters, and they hold heat in so they run about the same, then heating costs would be equal, or relatively close.  If one leaked heat and the heater ran more, then that would drive up costs.

I still submit that this sales person was stretching when she claimed that the difference would be as significant as she wanted her potential client to believe.

The amount of water to heat would impact costs as well.

As far as maitining the water temp, In addition to climate conditions, I would think the Surface area would play a part?  A tub with a larger water surface would cool quicker, (and therefore call to heat more).  One tub having an air blower would draw more when running, as well as cool the water too, no?

I don't think it would be significant.  

This is something I'll be montitoring with my new tub.

The differences between my existing Caspian and the new Geneva are:


an additional  .5 hp
an addtional 155 gallons water
an addtionall 7.25 sq '  of surface area
an addtional 300 watts on the heater.
addtioan of air blower

[cburk0677]

Just a thought if you are really concerned about saving money on your electric bill. Look at other applicances, lights, refrigerators, etc in your house before you get the spa. I bought a little monitor called Kill-a-watt so I can check the power consumption of all my plug in appliances. Here is what I found. I can save almost $8.00 per month by turning off my computer, printer, router, modem, when I am at work during the day. My TV and stereo,dvd player, playstation cost around $4.00 when they are not even turned on. Right there I save $12.00 a month by turning these items off when they are not in use. And I have really cheap electric rates. 9 cents per kwh isn't very bad. If it was 30 cents per kwh like some in california I would be saving a heck of a lot more than $12.00 per month.

That $12.00 a month might not sound like a lot but if my vanguard only costs me $30 a month to run than saving $12.00 will make the hottubs impact on my bill a lot less noticable.

[Micah]

Dos it make senses that the Optima operating costs would be that much higher? She seemed to be pushing the Hot Spring more than the Sudance. She mentioned that Vanguard winter operting costs here in New England would be about $45 a month compared to as much as $90 or $100 on the Optima. As always, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Seems to me that she has had a little to much of that H.S. Kool Aid  
Chris H made a post that was dead on.  With the stronger motors and an extra air blower you will have a higher electric bill with the optima but my guess would be no more than a $10.00 per month differance

[wetone]

Agreeing with the above.  Vanguard should cost less to operate.  How much less hard to say.

JohnD's post left out critcal factors:

What is the cost of kwh?
How does the cost convert to US $?

Cost of hydro here in Ontario 5.9 cents per kwh Canadian or 4.9 cents per kwh converted to US $
$36.00 Canadian is about $30.00 US.

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

It will be higher, but shouldn't be much more so than a Vanguard to a Grandee.  I think the Optima would run even a little bit higher than the Grandee, but a negligible amount.  They're both great tubs- go with the one you feel you deserve.

[brnelson]

Thanks for all the info. I ended up buying the Vanguard as it was $1,300 less than the Optima with lower operating costs. Hopefully I will be happy with New England Spas. Now I need to figure out when I should take delivery as the ground is pretty soggy right now. It will be going in the backyard on a concrete patio I had poured last summer.

[Gomboman]

brnelson, good luck with your purchase. The Vanguard and Optima are fine tubs. Just be thankful you don't live in Southern California. I pay around .30 per kWh for my spa usage.