Sundance Quality

[Electro]

 

I have some questions about the vaunted Sundance quality.  I did not get any answers from Sundance.

The basis for my questions is the Sundance claim that they have a quality program that meets ISO 9000 standards.  As an engineer with some expertise in ISO 9000, I have to wonder.  Here's why:

On my just delivered Maxxus tub, which is their best, there are gaps of 1/8 inch between two of my pillows and the tub, 5/16 inch from a third, and 1/2 inch from the 4th.  The latter two look way out of place to me for a $13,500 tub.  (Of course, I paid substantially less, but still over $10,000 with some extras.)

There is another issue.  The cover above the filter compartment does not fit right.  In fact, it won't stay in place.  It sort of tumbles forward and hangs out or down.

I have asked Sundance whether these levels of quality are defective or normal for them.  I have received no answer.

I don't know about you, but I've come to expect a high level of quality on most things I purchase.  I'm disappointed in Sundance.  I'd like to buy a Lexus or Sony hot tub - you know - high quality.  Perhaps this would be a Hot Springs or (fill in your favorite).

Electro

[SunshyneGyrl]

Try removing the middle (dark grey) insert in the pillow and tightening up the little screws... that should fix the pillow problem.  As for the filter lid, it will move a little but if it looks really small compared to the area then it might be a filter lid for a smaller tub, hence it being a little smaller than it should.  For some reason or another, the dealer might have given you the wrong filter lid.  If you think that is the case, just ask them to exchange it for another in your color.  The dealer should not have a problem whatsoever in complying, if so contact Sundance directly for the exchange.  Neither case I see in affecting their ISO9001 cert.  -optima owner

[empolgation]

The dealer should not have a problem whatsoever in complying...

I guess you haven''t seen Electro's earlier post about his "dealer experience" when his tub was delivered

[tony]

Electro

Does your spa have the suction cup pillows or the screw in type?  I thought that SD changed to the suction cup.  My screw in type fit snug against the shell, but you have to adjust them to get them right.

When you say the filter lid slips down, is it about a quarter inch?  If so, that seems right.  If it is much more, it needs to be looked at.  If I push mine back snug, it will slide forward a little to where it likes to stay.

[Ready2Buy1]

Our Sundance Optima lfilter lid fits properly...although we experienced the same thing with two of our pillow headrests. I removed them (we have the removable insert with the screw in fittings), flexed them the opposite way (toward the tub wall) and reinstalled...the now fit flush against the wall.

[SunshyneGyrl]

Electro, if you have had that many problems with your dealer, you really need to contact Sundance and let them know.  What state are you in?  You might be able to find a Sundance Rep or something in here or someone that knows someone.  I don't know, hope that helps.  I know that our dealer has been great and that Sundance really sets its standards high in their dealerships.  I don't think they would like it very much if they knew what their dealer was doing!

[Electro]

SunshyneGyrl and tony and OptedforOptima,

I have pillows that fasten with plastic screws under the removable insert.  The lid above the filters will slide a little, a little more, some more, then more again, and then fall off.  It looks okay, if you hold it in place.  It will stay in place, if there is no jostling of the tub (which is obviously not realistic).

Your comments seem to prove the point.  Namely, the customer is not allowed to adjust anything in order to finish or make the product presentable, for products that meet even the lowest quality measure within the ISO 9000 family of standards.   It appears evident to me that Sundance does not, in fact, meet the lowest quality standard within the ISO 9000 family, certainly not the ISO 9001 standard.

Frankly, I can scarcely believe the gulf between the Sundance claims for quality and the reality that the product they built for me is badly made.

Electro

[ZzTop]

Sunshynegyrl's advice seems reasonable.  Let us know how you make out after you have contacted Sundance.

[Starlight]

I have some questions about the vaunted Sundance quality.  I did not get any answers from Sundance.

The basis for my questions is the Sundance claim that they have a quality program that meets ISO 9000 standards.  As an engineer with some expertise in ISO 9000, I have to wonder.  Here's why:

First, I'm sorry to hear that you continue to be disappointed by your purchase.  Hopefully there will be easy fixes for these things.  

Second, I'm curious if you could point me to the relevant sections of ISO you think aren't being followed.  It's been years since I actually looked at the requirements, but my recollection was that it focused on policies and procedures.  Unless you had a customer complaint about some key aspect of the product, and your design output met you design input criteria, you only needed to follow your stated procedures to be in compliance with ISO.  If Sundance has no specification or procedure to ensure fit/finish--though you'd think they should, and it does not impact function, I think they could well be in compliance.  I could be wrong here, and it really is a bit off topic.  I just wanted to echo what I've seen posted--a quality certification, ISO or otherwise, does not guarantee that the product will necessarily be better than one from a non-certified manufacturer.  It *should* mean that all products from the manufacturer are built according to the same procedures, and that the manufacturer has a process in place to handle and act on customer complaints.  I'd send a letter to the customer service and QA directors reminding them of this and listing your specific dissatisfactions throughout you buying experience.  So, when can you actually get in the spa and start enjoying it?

Starlight

[doodoo]

I agree with Starlight here. ISO is a process and not a manufacturing Standard. It is meant to be operational and policiy based to ensure that you have a solid business operation.  Quality of manufacturing is something completely diferent here. At least that is also my recollection of the ISO 9000-9003 Standards.

[ebirrane]

ISO 9001, as I have seen applied to software, merely stated that existing procedures and business practices are documented and followed.

When trained as an ISO 9001 auditor for software projects the joke was always "why don't they just write down 'our stuff doesn't work' and be done with it."  

Having said that, though, chances are Sundance's procedures and documented acceptable error margins are probably within reason, meaning if your tub really is terribly manufactured it is probably filled with nonconformities from their specs.

Have you gone to other Sundance dealers to look at your model of tub to see if it has the same manufacturing problems?

Describe them in detail, and post some pictures here of what you feel is wrong, then ask members of this list to go to their local Sundance dealers (ones that display your model) and see if your tub is an anomoly or not.

-Ed

[SOP_Jr.]

Let me tell you about my 2003 Optima that was delivered on December 17, 2003. With in the first three weeks Pump #1 stop working, then blower motor and then the thermostat was off by 5 degerees. Now the temp readings keep going up and down from 98 to 109 but the water temp stays at the set temp of 98. Because of the problem with the temp it won't let the Circ pump or Ozonator work. They only work on the clean cycle. The Teck is comming out on Tuesday to see whats wrong this time.

[SOP_Jr.]

By the way if any other Sundance Spa owners have had this problem with the temp settings going up and down and also the OH message for Over heating shows up even though the spa is not over heating let me know.

[doodoo]

By the way if any other Sundance Spa owners have had this problem with the temp settings going up and down and also the OH message for Over heating shows up even though the spa is not over heating let me know.

Two months since we've received our Optima and no problems like you mention. Matter of fact no problems at all. maybe after 8-10 months? who knows, but if your dealer is as good as or better than mine, nothing to worry about. They will be there to deal with the problems.