HT Search - Hot Spring vs Marquis

[wjmeehan]

My wife an I finally started our search for the perfect hot tub.  We started the search by reviewing info on the net (great site BTW) to identify brands we want to look at, and to find dealers.

We want find a local Dealer we can trust, as this will be our first tub.  We are now visiting these dealers to check the quality and features and create a short list for wet testing.  So far we have identified the following brands to wet test:
  Marquis
  Hot Springs

Marquis Pros:
 No Pillows - we think it's better to have no pillows built into the tub.  They appear to us to be a maintenance headache and replacement expense we would like to avoid.

Marquis Cons:
 No separate circulator pump for continious ozone injection.

Hot Springs Pros:
 Nice sound system but very costly option ($1800)
 Continious circulation pump for onzone injection
Hot Springs Cons:
 Pillows
 Cost - fully loaded vista is $12,000

QUESTIONS:
Anyone have experience / opinions on pillows?

Should we be concerned about not having a small circulation pump for 24/7 ozone injection?

Also what are your opinions on lounge seatings (I know wet test!)?  They feel great when dry testing, but with boyancy and the jets running they may not be as comfortable.

[Lori]

Just a thought, but I have a HotSpring Vanguard.  The pillows are removable, so I took them off and only put them in the tub when I want to use it.

Less degradation.  I don't think pillows should be a make or break decision.

Wet test and see how the tubs feel wet.

Both are good tubs and manufacturers.  I don't think you can go wrong with either!

Good luck!

[Chris_H]

Mjmeehan:
There will be some degradation on the headrests over time, but I wouldn’t make a decision on a hottub based on headrests.    I think you will find most of the responses to your original post will say the same thing.  The Hotspring headrests should last at least 3 years before you have to replace them.  They will probably last longer than 3 years because 2 years ago they went from a one piece headrest to a two piece headrest.  The price for the Vista that you were quoted is in line with prices in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.  Anymore questions don’t hesitate to ask.
Chris H

[Mendocino101]

As both are nice spas....I think the wet test will help you decide which is best for you...I agree with you about the wear of the pillows and not having to deal with them is easier.....but like Lori mentioned you can remove them if you find you prefer the hot springs....the flip side to the circ pump is that with the Marquis you are turning over the water close to 70 times a day in your spa using the low speed of the large pump. some will see this as an advantage, to others not a big deal. Again both are made by manufactures that stand behind their product after the sale and that speaks well for both.

[saz]

we wet tested both hot spring and marquis tubs.  We made so many decisions based on what we had read and what we wanted, and didn't want....but that all goes out out of the window when you start to wet test.
We decided to go with the Marquis Reward and we're in the middle of getting that sorted, but to be perfectly honest, there was very little difference for us between the two tubs. Our decision to get a reward, rather than a envoy,  was eventually based on what the tubs felt like for us when we wet tested. You'll find that you'll know which tub is right for you when you start getting in them . It's almost like Karma!!!!!!!!
saz

[empolgation]

QUESTIONS:
Anyone have experience / opinions on pillows?

Should we be concerned about not having a small circulation pump for 24/7 ozone injection?

Also what are your opinions on lounge seatings (I know wet test!)?  They feel great when dry testing, but with boyancy and the jets running they may not be as comfortable.

Pillows...  as everyone said, not a deciding factor; yes, the cushion pillow will eventually need to be replaced, the Marquis non-cushioned headrest will last as long as the rest of the shell. An interesting observation from my shopping is that every dealer that offers tubs with cushions has told me that "you will love the cushion and always use it" while those without have said "you will find after being in your tub that you will rarely, if ever, use the cushion".

Thus far in my research, regarding ozonators, I have concluded practically nothing - they just haven't been around long enough to have reliable data. I think there is no concern regarding not having 24/7 ozone (here is an area I have found absolutely nothing about either way as to which is "better") One small thing to consider is that the 24/7 CD ozone of the HS is suppose to require more cost/maintanance than the Marquis ozonator which has been said to last 7 or more years without maintenace/replacement  - but as said above only time can answer that definitively.

Loungers... you are on the right track. From my experience a dry test of a lounger means absolutely nothing - totaly different wet in 100% of my wet tests. For me, when I found the best fitting wet lounger it was clear that I did not want one in my tub.

You've chosen 2 great tubs, your concern about pillows and ozonator is moot, make your choice based upon your other concerns and needs (features, wet-test, etc...).

[stuart]

As your hearing from everyone, both are good spas. I would not be concerned with the lack of a circ pump, in-fact I kind of like a spa without one better as long as they use a 2 speed pump that moves enough water while still being efficient. The difference in the efficiency in those 2 spas should be very little but you will pay a bit more over the long haul for maintenance items on the Hotspring (i.e. filters, pillows, ect.) and as Mendocino101 posted, your will turn over more water per day through the filters on the Marquis in addition to more surface skimming.

I don't think you can really go wrong either way though and a wet test should cinch your decision.

[Bill_Stevenson]

Pillows or no pillows?  Ozonator, pros and cons?  These and questions such as what color(?), how many jets(?), how many pumps(?) and a bunch of others become at best secondary to the main issue.   The main issue is:  How does it feel to you when you wet test?  You are looking at very good tubes.  If you can't choose on the basis of how these two tubes feel, then look at the dealer and the price to help you.  Bottom line, you can't go wrong the either of these products.

Let us know how you do.

Regards,

Bill

[wjmeehan]

Thank you all for your input.  

As I suspected wet tests are in order once all the final candidates are identified (we're getting very close).  We decided early on we would visit dealers without bathing suits to get a feel for the products and dealerships, and then go back for wet testing once we had the finalists.  If a dealer doesn't "Cut the mustard" it won't matter how good a product he sells!

Based on the responses about the pillows, and thinking about them, I assure you pillows will not become a deciding factor in our selection.

To update you on our search, this weekend we visited a few more dealers (Saratoga, Bullfrog, & D1).

The Saratoga is now the third candidate, it seemed to me to be a reasonably quality product at a lower price point than the HS or Marquis.  I personally think the other two are higher end tubs, but we feel it qualifies for a wet test.

The Bullfrog was an interesting design, but the dealership was a Mom & Pop operation which made me feel uncomfortable with the level of service we could get from them.  The shop had only two spas on display (only one filled - he wouldn't fill the other even for a wet test!)  The whole sales pitch was centered on how all Hot Tubs eventually leak (I sure hope not), and that this design isolated leakage points and would allow the customer to bring broken pieces back to the shop for replacement by the owner.  They guy even displayed how to remove the motor and controller board!  This did not instill confidence.  While my wife and I were sitting in the tub, he got a service call in which the owner was having heating problems - he told them to put some sort of thermal blanket on it, and didn't offer to come out for a service call to check it out (to be fair I only heard one side of the conversation).

Finally, we tried to find a D1 dealer in our area (based on the comments here and some surfing).  The dealer locator on the web site listed a single dealer (by zip code only) which when we visited no longer carried the product.  I emailed D1 - no response.  Finally I called them and after waiting 20 mins on hold (not great, but not too bad) I was directed to a local dealer which we will visit next weekend (I'm sure this new dealer will want to know about the problems with the dealer locator - I'm certain some people in the area can't find them, and they are only 20 miles away!).  I also think I've identified a new test for the manufacturer (email and call them to check customer service response).

We are going to check out the D1 and then start scheduling wet tests.  I even convinced a friend to come along for the wet tests to make sure the three of us will be comfortable in the tub (my version of real life testing).  She has developed some arthritis in her upper spine, and I'm hoping she will partake whenever she feels the need.

QUESTIONS:
How big a deal is a leak?  Can a HT be fixed if it eventually develops one?  How rare are they?  (I'm hoping this was mostly a scare tactic.)

Any opinions on the Saratoga line?

Once again, thank you all for your responses, you are making a big decision easier, and making us feel more comfortable with the process.

Cheers,
Bill

[Shut_Down_Stranger]

I recently wet tested both of the tubs, these are the differences that I noticed.

The seats of the Marquis are more contoured than the Hot Springs.

The Hot springs has better "non corner" seats

The Marquis has different seat heights in the corner.

I liked the engineering and construction of the Marquis a bit better in terms of pumps fitting and side panels.

I would not ante the money for the Hot Springs stereo.

I liked the pillows.

The price quoted for the vista seems high

I liked the Marquis spa frog.

The hot springs is a larger and taller tub

either one would be a good choice. ...  

[stuart]

How big a deal is a leak?  Can a HT be fixed if it eventually develops one?  How rare are they?  (I'm hoping this was mostly a scare tactic.)

Leaks are very real! Marquis has gone a long way to eliminate them with a barb fitting that is glued and clamped, I have not seen a plumbing leak in a Marquis for a long time other than one spa that someone at the factory tightened the jet bodies to much (marquis replaced the whole spa!). I haven't worked on any 2004 Hotspring yet but in the past their foam has a tendency to carry the water to different parts of the cabinet making it kind of hard to find. Marquis foam will not hold water and allows it to pass straight down making it easier to find if you get a leak.

The bottom line is that the foam helps prevent leaks and is necessary. Both Marquis and Hotspring give you an excellent warranty and are proven to perform those warranties with unmatched professionalism and customer service so for at least 5 years on the HS and 7 years on the Marquis leaking should not even be something you concern yourself with.

Any opinions on the Saratoga line?  

Saratoga (though not a bad tub) does not come close for engineering or reputation to the other two.

[Rboehme]

QUESTIONS:
How big a deal is a leak?  Can a HT be fixed if it eventually develops one?  How rare are they?  (I'm hoping this was mostly a scare tactic.)

As stuart pointed out leaks are very real.

As someone who gets to work on both hot springs and marquis on a regular basis, I would say that the Hot Springs is by far the more difficult to fix a leak in.(In fact its the most difficult of all brands I have seen).

I do not know of any brands that have built a leakproof spa.