J-245 Circuit breaker keeps tripping

[Mike82]

Hi Guys,

We recently purchased this model from AquaQuip around 2 weeks ago. For the first week everything went great, they installed the hot tub & did the electrical work. However a week ago we woke up and found the hot tub was off. I went over to the circuit breaker and found that it had tripped. Turned it back on and within around 20 minutes it tripped again.

A Tech from AquaQuip finally came out, found the red wire going into the breaker was hot to the touch. He Rewired by cutting the end off the red wire and starting it again, this time the wire was "warm". He said he'd like to replace the breaker but had to order the part (which is weird to me why they don't carry these on the truck, or is that normal?). Anyway, Just looking for comments really to see if breakers going bad like this is fairly normal. It's going to be the third time since purchasing i've had to take a day off work because the tech's don't work on weekends

Thanks,

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I think Aqua quip should have that in stock but  I am not convinced it's a breaker issue, very rarely it is.  Trimming back the wire shouldn't make a difference it's just a bone head move.    Good thing is AQ is a very good company so they should take care of you.  Call em and tell them to get it going, it's a new spa for pete's sake. 

[Mike82]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply. The chap that came out seemed to think it was working fine (and it was until he left) and that he was a little concerned that the wire was still warm, so to be safe he was going to get the breaker swapped. The fact that it still tripped after he left makes me wonder if something else is going on. He checked the hot tub first and didn't see anything. There certainly wasn't any water leaks or anything visible that I could see either.

He did say that it wouldn't be the first time it was a bad breaker, he mentioned that he had to go back to one site three times in a row due to the breaker being bad. To me, and i'm no electrician, that if the breaker was bad it would trip at random intervals or not even turn on at all rather than a set period of time. Maybe the wiring is somehow getting too warm and creating more resistance then tripping the breaker? What would cause brand new installed wiring to heat up like that?

[Mike82]

Service tech got back to me today. Apparently they have to order the breaker - i'm unsure as to why they don't have stock of these as I would assume they install these things on a daily basis. Brand new hot tub sat there and can't even climb in Gotta learn to be more patient I guess.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Um yeah, were a Jacuzzi dealer and most of my customers would be going ballistic at this point.   I know AquaQuip is a good company, because I live in Bellingham.  But having a new tub sitting there not running I would call them and tell them to get it fixed now or come get it.   I can go down to Lowes and buy a new breaker right now, so not sure why they are having to order one in unless it's something off the wall.     I am usually the one to give the dealer a chance to fix it and I am a patient guy, but being it's new and not running would tork me. 

 As to the tripping it's hard to say, hopefully it's the breaker but like I mentioned it's rare. 

[Chartreux]

They don't make the good breaker boxes like they used to...My dad is an Electrical Engineer (EE Degree) and there was one box maker that he favored and it was the first thing he checked on my house. If your electrician didn't dedicate the line, maybe call the electrician to check your voltages. I know years ago we fished a line through the house to have a dedicated circuit just for the computer. Hope everything works out good with your new breaker, keep us posted on this...

[Vinny]

Typically things get warm or hot on electrical connections because of poor connections or the wiring is too small. An electrical device - breaker, plug or whatever is rated for a certain amperage and the norm is to shoot for 80% of it. A 15 Amp circuit should have only 12 amps to in; 20 Amp only 15. Amazingly a lot of people do get very close or sometimes even exceed the maximum amperage on their main breaker as there is some slop before it trips.

I guess if you didn't have a good mechanical connection on the wire it could have gotten warm or hot. It also may be possible that the circuit breaker connection was damaged from the hot wire so a good mechanical connection couldn't be made the second time.

When it gets repaired I would keep an eye on that thing for a little while.

[Budule]

sounds "unusual" ......copper wire aint cheap , maybe he skimped and used some lefterovers ........I would want to know amp draw on the tub , what size breaker (the box and the disconnect) how long the run and what size wire he used (especially that ) ......if  its a long run , maybe he SHOULD have went with #6  but used # 8 .....just sayin , I would want to know.....

[Mike82]

Thanks for the reply's!

I do remember him using a device at the time that measured how much amps it was pulling - I believe he said it was hovering around 33 amps and that was on full load with all the pumps going. As far as the length it's actually only going around 15 feet from the tub itself straight to the breaker box. What wire he used I have no idea, sorry

I tried turning it back on the other day just to get the water circulating for a few moments, this time it tripped within around 1-2 minutes, much faster.

We spoke to the manager we purchased it from and they are now going to send a tech out tomorrow with the new breaker. I'm going to make sure he sticks around for a while to make sure it's totally fixed this time.

[Mike82]

Well, a really nice tech came out today from Aqua Quip called Randy. He replaced the breaker  - upon inspection the breaker they used upon the initial install looked like it was a used one, it was all busted up and a little corroded, ugh!. He replaced it with a brand new Siemens one. Flicked it on and it works like a charm! He really took his time and went over everything to make sure it was working great. He was trying to work out why the heater would not stay on when both pumps were in use - he tried switching it over to 60amp logic (?) with the jumpers in the control unit but no joy. He said he was going to look into that for us as it might be a feature they disabled with software or something.

Anyways, nothing but praise for this guy, he was really friendly and did an awesome job. Going to send his manager a nice note thanking him.

[Vinny]

Being a service guy myself there are all types of people doing service and getting a good one is extremely valuable. Unfortunately others may be just as good except "THE ONE" that fixes your (general your) problem has seen the problem before but it sounds like he will go the extra for you by researching the issue with the heating. I definitely would send his manager a note ... we really do appreciate the recognition that we did a better than expected job. I know I treat my "good" customers better than my "bad" customers but there are some people out there that you can never please.

Just a FYI - when I had my AC replaced the contractor was going to use the old disconnect that was on the original unit. The electrical inspector came by and insisted that they use a new disconnect and they had to comply or else he wasn't going to pass the install. I work with some people who save used parts "just in case" - I can't understand why anybody would want to use a part that they took off of something else, it was probably problematic in the first place.

Glad you're up and running ... and don't be too disappointed if the spa was made that it doesn't heat with both pumps as in the winter my spa doesn't really lose heat when the pumps are on (mine cuts the heater if 3 pumps are on).

Well, a really nice tech came out today from Aqua Quip called Randy. He replaced the breaker  - upon inspection the breaker they used upon the initial install looked like it was a used one, it was all busted up and a little corroded, ugh!. He replaced it with a brand new Siemens one. Flicked it on and it works like a charm! He really took his time and went over everything to make sure it was working great. He was trying to work out why the heater would not stay on when both pumps were in use - he tried switching it over to 60amp logic (?) with the jumpers in the control unit but no joy. He said he was going to look into that for us as it might be a feature they disabled with software or something.

Anyways, nothing but praise for this guy, he was really friendly and did an awesome job. Going to send his manager a nice note thanking him.

[Budule]

Well, a really nice tech came out today from Aqua Quip called Randy. He replaced the breaker  - upon inspection the breaker they used upon the initial install looked like it was a used one, it was all busted up and a little corroded, ugh!. He replaced it with a brand new Siemens one. Flicked it on and it works like a charm! He really took his time and went over everything to make sure it was working great. He was trying to work out why the heater would not stay on when both pumps were in use - he tried switching it over to 60amp logic (?) with the jumpers in the control unit but no joy. He said he was going to look into that for us as it might be a feature they disabled with software or something.

Anyways, nothing but praise for this guy, he was really friendly and did an awesome job. Going to send his manager a nice note thanking him.

If the other guy put in a used breaker , then he might "undersize" the wire to.....if he has it on 60 amps , MAKE SURE he is using #6 wire......

[aeajr]

The fact that the wire gets warm concerns me.   He may have used #10 wire which is for 30 amp service rather than #8 for 40 amp and #6 for 50 amp.   

During a full warm up from cold water on mine the wire never gets warm and it was 80 degrees out.  I am set up for 50 amp 240.   So I would check that wire size.

The other problem that can occur that can cause tripping is wiring the white, common to the common bar instead of to the GFI breaker.   I don't know what kind of panel you are wired to but if you find you continue to have the breaker tripping, check where the white wire is connected.  That MIGHT be the problem.