Energy efficiency - Arctic vs others

[iceno9]

Hi All,

Visited Arctic spas showroom at the weekend and got a load on information on the technologies they use and so on (not just the sales gumpf).... I was interested to see that the tub itself is not insulated, instead it is the cabinet that is insulated. The idea is to give much better access to components and equipment for maintanence purposes as well as reduce heat loss from pumps and piping inside the cabinet. i.e. the 'space' is kept warm and any heat generated from equipment penetrates the tub to help keep the water warm...

My question is this....
Whilst the above seems unique and quite impressive, what are the disadvantages? And why do other manufacturers not follow suit?
For example - re-using the heat from pumps sounds like a good idea....but then again the pump is not in a constant 30-40 degree ambient which might reduce the lifetime of the pump?

Does the above technology really make difference or are most tubs much the same regarding efficiency?
Your opinions please...

Regards
Matt

[rosewoodsteel]

I love my new Artic Klondiker, and have accessed the interior a number of times.  It is a great tub and I highly recommend it.  I have left a few photos elsewhere on this site.  I don't have time to adress your questions. Will do later.

[clover]

From a stand point of logic, it would appear to me that insulation is intended to "hold" heat in, thus the reason most tub shells and plumbing are insulated to hold the heat in and not let it out.

OK, logic also says, if we insulate the cabinet to hold the heat in, it would have the same effect.  But then, which is a better approach, while they both work, there is a greater ability for heat to leak, which is offset by the ability to capture heat from the pumps that would seemingly heat the water.  That is imagination at work.

I would suggest both concepts have a positive affect on heat retention, but we will never know which concept is better.

There once was a manufacutrer who used a "motor wrap heat exchange" to provide motor heat to water traveling through a coil wrapped around the motor.  While it is a good concept, it was not practical in operation.

[Tman122]

There are others who do as well as Arctic with that design of insulation. And as long as the insulation is done right both designs work well. But it can be done wrong both ways also.

The thing about capturing the heat and using it to heat water is skewed fact. All pumps put heat in the water they move. Using it to reduce heat loss yes. But it also comes with challenges for components and temp drift in warmer weather.

Full foam supporters are smart enough to understand the argument about leaks and design them out as much as possible. Seems the guys who make leaks easier to fix have more leaks because it falls lower on the priority list.

[Chartreux]

to iceno9, I believe "Bullfrog" also makes this into their hot tubs/spas...Maybe look at those and compare those to the Artic branding...
Hope this helps, Bullfrog also has a lower costs per month of operation. Is that also what your looking at? I'm look at the costs per month per operation...
Please posts back what you end up buying...

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Bullfrog uses full-foam like Sundance and Jacuzzi..   

[rosewoodsteel]

Tman, how difficult has it been for you to repair leaks in the parimeter insulated tubs?

[Hottubguy]

Tman, how difficult has it been for you to repair leaks in the parimeter insulated tubs?

I think his point is a full foamed spa is less likely to leak if done properly.

[Tman122]

Tman, how difficult has it been for you to repair leaks in the parimeter insulated tubs?

Sticking your head into an equipment bay to repair leaks is the same on either style of insulation. About 98 out of 100 repairs are in the equipment bay. It is more difficult to repair leaks on a full foam tub. No one is denying that. But full foam does insulate and quiet a tub better. Remember the Arctic funded study? The full foam tub was more efficient even with 2" less cover thickness.

With the proper tools and knowledge a repair in the foam while harder than in a non full foam tub, still isn't that bad. And so rare it seems those who use it as a deciding factor are maybe not fully informed.

Here we go again........

[rosewoodsteel]

Have you repaired many leaks in parimeter insulated tubs?

[Tman122]

Yes, lots of them. About 98 percent in the equipment bay. There was a string of tubs from one particular manufacturer that had a lot of trouble with glue joints at the manifold and jets back about 6-8 years ago. They were all out of warranty and that fit my business better. They were perimeter insulated tubs.

[rosewoodsteel]

Interesting that most of the leaks from full foam and parimeter foam tubs are in the equipment bay.  Were most pump seals?   I hope you disn't work on too many Artics.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Not one dealer you ever meet would say they like a leak, better yet a service tech, yet it happens.   Doesn't matter what you spent on it or what brand it is a spa can get a leak.  Full foam, no foam,  perimeter foam and even some kind of new fangled blown in foam, it can leak.   It's built by humans, go figure.... 
 
  Oh hey we wet test our spa's 5 times at the factory to ensure you it doesn't leak.  Guess what it can leak!!   As far as energy consumption it can be a crap shoot..   Most if not all major mfg build a very energy efficient spa, all within probably 5 to 10 dollars a month of each other depending on where you live and what temp you keep it at.   I think people worry about the small chit to much, find a dealer that will take care of you, find a spa you like with a budget you can handle and be happy!!!

   

[rosewoodsteel]

   I think people worry about the small chit to much, find a dealer that will take care of you, find a spa you like with a budget you can handle and be happy!!!

Amen to that!
I love my Artic.    I happen to like the idea of full access, perimeter foam.
But you know, the bottom line is if a person enjoys their tub and is happy, that is all that truly matters.
Go soak and be happy my friends.

[Tman122]

Interesting that most of the leaks from full foam and parimeter foam tubs are in the equipment bay.  Were most pump seals?   I hope you disn't work on too many Artics.

Pump seals, heater gaskets, sensor seals, valve connections. Most of my repairs aren't leaks, there malfunction.