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Author Topic: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos better  (Read 8847 times)

Mendocino101

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Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos better
« on: June 19, 2004, 11:50:24 am »
I have noticed something that I hope some of the Industry guys here might be able to answer...I have noticed that “most” of the older and without a getting into a big debate, commonly respected Manufactures...Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis, Beachcomber make full foam tubs.... while many of the newer or smaller makers use the thermo design...without getting into who is better.... I believe each have their own merits as well cons.... is it easier to start up and build this way...(thermo) I know when I toured both types of factory’s... while in the full foam makers I was told while watching the foam being installed that it was the most difficult part of the manufacturing process....

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Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos better
« on: June 19, 2004, 11:50:24 am »

Wisoki

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2004, 12:33:54 pm »
I don't understand whats so dificult. The spa is upside down, the cabinet is on. The equipment area is protected. ready aim fire, what's so difficult? Free flow is a start up and they are full foamed. With respect to thermopane style, if you only foam the shell and not the plumbing, sure it's a little easier, but if you foam your plumbing also, there seems to be a lot more care needs to be taken so your tub doesn't become full foam. I would guess it is solely the prefrence of the specific manufacturer weather or not they full foam.
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ZzTop

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2004, 12:47:47 pm »
Aside for the R value issue the most important thing regarding thermopane is how well the plumbing pipes are foamed around where they are attached to the jet fittings to help support them.

drb

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2004, 02:29:53 pm »
If you go with a full foam spa process, you have to be careful about placing the pumps in one certain area.  Most of the multi-pump non-foam spas have pumps all over under the spa.  The non-foam design thus also gives you a little more room to "un-kink" the plumbing coming off the pumps.

dpgtech

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2004, 12:44:49 am »
Some respectable companys use thermo pane design.  Coleman has been using the thermo pane design for 15+ years.  so not just start up companies use the design. In terms of which is more diffucult to do they both have their techniques to make the process as efficient as possible.  

Mendocino101

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2004, 01:22:52 am »
Hey dpgtech....

by no means was I saying all of the older  company's use full foam...that is why I said "most"....and again I am not touting who is better..but I did notice that more newer company's tend to go thermo....is all.....and again I was told the application of the foam is the hardest job in the build process.....

Wisoki

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2004, 11:23:47 am »
and again I say...I don't understand whats so dificult. The spa is upside down, the cabinet is on. The equipment area is protected. ready aim fire, what's so difficult?

Quote
Hey dpgtech....

by no means was I saying all of the older  company's use full foam...that is why I said "most"....and again I am not touting who is better..but I did notice that more newer company's tend to go thermo....is all.....and again I was told the application of the foam is the hardest job in the build process.....



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Chris_H

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2004, 11:42:41 am »
Wisoki,
I understand your point, but I believe it is the layering of the foam that is difficult.  I know both Hotspring and Sundance use different density foams for different areas of the inside of the cabinet.  
Chris H.

SerjicalStrike

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2004, 11:57:18 am »
The cabinet is not on when the tub is foamed.  If it were, the sides would blow out when the foam expanded.  

Chas

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2004, 02:18:10 pm »
Quote
The cabinet is not on when the tub is foamed.  If it were, the sides would blow out when the foam expanded.  

Not true for HotSpring - the cabinet is most deffinitely in place as the foam is applied  - but you're beginning to see why applying the foam is the high-paying job in the plant.
Former HotSpring Dealer - Southern Cal.

Wisoki

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2004, 05:03:17 pm »
Again not too dificult. As Jacuzzi and Sundance ( I cannot speak to HotSpring spas) a very heavy brown paper is stapled to the wood frame to prevent the foam from sticking to the cabinet. I am pretty sure the "foam spraying technician" knows full well that the foam expands at aproxamatly 3x it's original volume. OK, so what. In the case of HotSpring Spas, the 2# foam is sprayed in until the "technician" know the expansion will reach about 2-3" from the spas floor. When that foam sets, the spa rolls down the line to the 3# density foam spraying "technician". Sorry guys, but since most of these processes are mechanized and computerized, I cannot fathom what the percieved dificulty is.
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empolgation

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2004, 05:26:33 pm »
Quote
Sorry guys, but since most of these processes are mechanized and computerized, I cannot fathom what the percieved dificulty is.
And therein lies the answer to the original question?

It's easier to start up and build thermo because such a mechanized and computerized process is not necessary? Brutus just connects the thermo panels together??
e

dpgtech

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2004, 11:03:35 pm »
Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive.  You did say many..  We sell both full foam and thermo...  From a tech stand point thermo is the best, I'll give an example

We recently had two New colemans leak from between the compensating ring and the lock nut on one of the large cyclone jets.  Talk about easy to find and fix.  two months ago I had A J-385 leak from one of the max power pro jets in the footwell.  this one was harder to find and fix because of the full foam; more time consuming removing wet foam and replacing.  once you get to the problem it is same as the coleman to fix.  the time difference to verify a leak between the two can be big depending model and location of leak. so From a repair standpoint I like the thermo. I know we weren't trying to tout who is better, just  my Humble opinion on what I like to repair better.

spahappy

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2004, 10:42:15 am »
Quote
Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive.  You did say many..  We sell both full foam and thermo...  
dpgtech,
I'm curious, Do you sell between the two brands or are you strickly in the service end of the business.
The reason I'm asking is, this seems to be the case of a spa store that can sell both types of insulation side by side without degrading the other. Very interesting!!!
                                 Spahappy
« Last Edit: June 24, 2004, 10:43:24 am by spahappy »

Wisoki

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2004, 11:56:13 am »
Many do.


Quote
Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive.  You did say many..  We sell both full foam and thermo...  
dpgtech,
I'm curious, Do you sell between the two brands or are you strickly in the service end of the business.
The reason I'm asking is, this seems to be the case of a spa store that can sell both types of insulation side by side without degrading the other. Very interesting!!!
                                  Spahappy

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Re: Full foam vs thermo....? but not about whos be
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2004, 11:56:13 am »

 

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