Best bromine/ mineral delivery system

[mkymitts]

Sorry if this has been mentioned over  and over again but anyone have a suggestion for a good bromine delivery system. I was reading some info on spa frog but i was looking for some other idea. Don't think i want to go with chlorine.

thanks

[Topline Mike]

I'm pretty sure you aren't getting away from chlorine with any sanitizer.  Your bromine system uses chlorine to create the sanitation.  First, you add a sodium bromide base, then add the tablets in a "floater", and then shock with bleach or other chlorine source.  With light use, you could get away with just the tablets.  I had a small hot tub party last night.  The bromine was at 5ppm before the kids and adults showed up (7 total).  It was late last night when the guests went home, and I didn't check the bromine level.  This morning I checked the level, and I had around 1ppm left.  I added 3 ounces of 8.25% clorox bleach to get me back in the range I needed to be, around 5-6ppm.  chem geek will tell me exactly how many ppm I added in my 415 gallon tub, but I know I'm close.  The floater, which resembles a mushroom, can be set at different levels of exposure to the tablets.  I guess experience will dial you in as to how much chlorine you have to add to the system as you go.  I've had heavy use with our new tub this past week, and I've added 3/4 of a gallon of clorox bleach to keep 3-6ppm bromine in our tub. 

[chem geek]

3 fluid ounces of 8.25% bleach in 425 gallons is 4.8 ppm FC but is only 2.1 ppm bromine so added to your initial 1 ppm bromine that gets you to around 3 ppm bromine, not to the 5-6 if that's what you were shooting for.  Are you sure you are looking at the bromine ppm on your test kit and not the chlorine ppm?  If looking at chlorine then 1+4.8 is close to the 6 you were looking for, but again only if this was all ppm chlorine.

Anyway, adding chlorine after a soak to make more bromine is really still a bromine sanitation system at its core since chlorine reacts with the bromide bank to make bromine rather quickly so you don't actually have chlorine for very long in the spa and certainly don't have any when you are soaking.  Also note that if one has an ozonator, then it makes bromine from the bromide bank as well, and it also oxidizes bather waste directly too.

[mkymitts]

So then whats the deal with the SPA FROG products? Gimmick or good product? 

Now I have owned a pool for the past 13 years and both my wife and i have had them growing up. This seems like the same principal as a pool to maintain or am i totally misjudging the concept?

Thanks again

[Topline Mike]

chem, I have the taylor K-2106 kit.  For those that don't know, it tests for bromine, pH, Total Alkalinity, and Calcium Hardness.  I have found that the bromine ppm is the most vague.  The test says:  If total bromine is present, sample will turn pink. (This is after the test says to add two dippers of R-0870.  For one, what the hell is "dipper" for the first timer?  There is a mini scoop shovel attached to R-0870, and one mini shovel full is a dipper, I found.)  And then it says if the pink color disappears, add some more R-0870.  When I first started testing, I used a lot of dippers to get a faint pink color in the sample.  Adding one drop of R-0872, the color turned clear, which meant I had very little bromine in the tub.  That's when I realized I needed to add way more bleach to catch up to my hot tub use.  So, chem geek, after I added the 3 ounces of bleach (I use a shot glass as my measurer, maybe not the most accurate), I checked the bromine and had 5.5ppm.  Now, the tablets in the tub are obviously making bromine at a steady pace, and that could be why I got a higher ppm when I checked later, correct? 

james, I'm sure the spa frog works, along with all the other spa chemical company's products.  I have found it's like paying for green paint on a John Deere.  Great products, but there are alternatives.  Do your homework, and you will educate yourself on what works for chemicals.  I had one dealer tell me, "but Mike, these products are made exclusively for spas".  I thought to myself, yes, the skin on your products looks real pretty, but the inside tastes the same. 

[chem geek]

Topline Mike, yes, your tabs probably helped you catch up and accounted for the difference.  I just always like to see things add up -- otherwise, there's something else going on that needs to be understood.

[Scuttler]

mkymitts - I tried the SPA FROG and it didn't work with me (flatlined every day). I ended up switching to a floating dispenser. The dealer has since stopped marketing the product on new spa sales. He says he's had mixed results with it.

[mkymitts]

Thanks for the help guys.  I eventually decided to not use  the spa frog after talking to three different dealers who all said stay away and it's all just a gimmick. I think we are going to go with the Nature2 and the Nature Cense. Everyone that I have spoken to about this product  has loved it .

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Mineral cartridge and bromine just does not work for me..   Just go bromine and save the 30 bucks for the mineral stick and buy shock.. 

[mkymitts]

Thanks jim. I have used chlorine in my pool for many many years and this always seems to be the best solution for sanitizing . A few of my co workers and my spa dealer advised me that bromine is a very harsh product and I should consider other options. I read good things about it( bromine) but what is the advantage over chlorine or is it preference?

[Topline Mike]

Advantages of Bromine:  I've read that bromine is more forgiving, as it still oxidizes waste and kills bacteria in a broader pH range than chlorine.  With the floater in the hot tub with the brominating tabs, you can get away with not checking your levels for an extended time period. 

Disadvantages:  Bromine costs more to operate than chlorine.  Bromine spa water is not as clear as chlorine water. 

Either way you go, you still have to check your water balance and sanitation levels on a regular basis.  The most important thing you can buy for your hot tub is a good test kit.  I am using bromine, and I have the Taylor K-2106 kit, which I bought on amazon through Amato Industries.  If you go with chlorine, you need the K2006 kit.  I know the test strips are so easy to use, but the results can be so vague. 

With our high bather load in out tub, the tabs don't keep up with the sanitation needed.  I end up adding bleach every day to create more bromine.  This is not a big deal, however.  When I get out at night (every night so far), I just dump in 2-4 ounces of bleach so it's up to par for the morning.  If we continue to use the tub like we are now, I will probably switch to chlorine on my next fill. 

Also, some people don't like the smell of chlorine, and some don't like the smell of bromine.  I don't mind either. 

I've heard good things about Nature², but it's the most expensive.

[MarKee]

The SpaFrog systems works very well and is one of the best systems on the market for easy maintenance and minimal chemicals in my opinion.  Most of our customers love it!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 To me the goal with a chlorine/Nature2 systems is to keep sanitizer down in check with ozone or say ClearRay type systems.   So using a bit of chlorine "after use" as the sanitizer then hit it with MPS (shock) once a week and let the cartridge and ozone carry some of the load...   

  When using a Nature2 systems with bromine tabs in a floater, plus ozone or ClearRay  Why do you need the nature 2 cartridge at that point.   You already have a bromine base killing bacteria that is always maintaining a 2 ta 3ppm of bromine and still shocking once a week.  However, if you are not using the spa bromine can/will rise to a point where the PPM has now gone up because it is always dissolving into the spa whether you use it or not..   I do like bromine for people with a lot of kids using the spa as they are not always responsible enough to add chlorine to the spa after use, or mom and dad have no clue how many have been in there.       There are many ways to skin this cat, but I just think chlorine with nat2 is about as simple as it can get without having a spa that smells like the city swimming pool.     Pros and cons with both I guess.. 

[hottubdan]

Nature 2 specifically does not go with bromine unless they have changers something.

[Kaiseroll22]

3 fluid ounces of 8.25% bleach in 425 gallons is 4.8 ppm FC but is only 2.1 ppm bromine so added to your initial 1 ppm bromine that gets you to around 3 ppm bromine, not to the 5-6 if that's what you were shooting for.  Are you sure you are looking at the bromine ppm on your test kit and not the chlorine ppm?  If looking at chlorine then 1+4.8 is close to the 6 you were looking for, but again only if this was all ppm chlorine.

Anyway, adding chlorine after a soak to make more bromine is really still a bromine sanitation system at its core since chlorine reacts with the bromide bank to make bromine rather quickly so you don't actually have chlorine for very long in the spa and certainly don't have any when you are soaking.  Also note that if one has an ozonator, then it makes bromine from the bromide bank as well, and it also oxidizes bather waste directly too.

This confuses me i thought you take FC and multiply it by 2.25 to get the bromine ppm.... so wouldn't 3 fluid ounces of 8.25% bleach in 425 gallons is 4.8 ppm FC but is would be  10.8 not 2.1 ppm bromine.   or am i backwards?